Wolverine plan

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
kcavorsi
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Wolverine plan

Post by kcavorsi » November 29th, 2020, 12:06 pm

Did some training with the WP about 2 years ago, haven't really spent much time on the rower since then, but got the itch to give it a shot again. We'll see how it goes. No real long term goal as of now, just getting my feet under me with some L4 work. Here's today's workout:

2500m warmup
L4 42' Ref pace 1:48 avg spm 17.8
112^/104/110/104/110/104/110
Target meters: 9,657
Meters rowed: 9,672
2500 cooldown

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jackarabit
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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by jackarabit » November 29th, 2020, 1:49 pm

Hey Kevin. You’re the man to do it imo. To many of us, WP L4 resembles Kabala or the calculus. You were perfectly at home with it as I recall. Put up your numbers.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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kcavorsi
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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by kcavorsi » November 30th, 2020, 9:54 am

L4
46' Ref pace 1:48 17.8spm

2500m warmup
176/178/176/180/110
Target m: 10,559
Actual: 10,575
2500m cooldown

kcavorsi
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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by kcavorsi » December 1st, 2020, 10:18 am

L4
50' Ref pace 1:48 17.8 spm

2500 m warmup
176/176/186/176/176
Target: 11,476 m
Actual: 11,494 m
2500 m cooldown

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Cant Climb
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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by Cant Climb » December 1st, 2020, 10:22 am

I never understood the Wolverine plan at all.

Good on you for doing it (i think).

Tony Cook
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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by Tony Cook » December 22nd, 2020, 6:44 pm

Just resurrecting this thread of the many Wolverine ones as it is the most recent.
I have read up all I can find on the WP, including the one from the old site with all the strange formatting and a couple of odd trolls who dipped in from time to time. Lots of useful info from Mike C himself.
I cannot find the answer to this. Don’t know if anyone can help out.
With the L4 workouts what is the importance of changing the stroke rate several times in each 6’ or 10’ sequence? I am new to it and really struggle with the consistency over just 2’. On a 2’ 16 rate I find my pace jumping around +/- 4” and then I’ll be at 18 strokes after one minute so have drop to 14 to get the 32 strokes for the 2’.
Last session I did 1,036 strokes in 60’ and, with a lot of concentration and many adjustments hit each 10’ sequence with the right number of stokes. Today I thought I’d work for longer periods at the rates so did 10’ sequences of just 16/18/20 SPM and found with the longer sessions at one rate and pace I could get into the rhythm and feel of that. Again I hit the right number of strokes, 1,040 for this session, but am I missing the training effect if I do 10’ at 16 SPM then 10’ at 18 SPM rather than 2’ at 16 and 2 at 18 repeated five times?
Born 1963 6' 5" 100Kg
PBs only from 2020 - 100m 15.7s - 1min 355m - 500m 1:28.4 - 1k 3:10.6 - 2k 6:31.6 - 5k 17:34.9 - 6k 20:57.5 - 30min @ 20SPM 8,336m - 10k 36:28.0 - 1 hour 16,094m - HM 1:18:51.7

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jackarabit
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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by jackarabit » December 22nd, 2020, 8:38 pm

Tony Cook wrote:
December 22nd, 2020, 6:44 pm
Just resurrecting this thread of the many Wolverine ones as it is the most recent.
I have read up all I can find on the WP, including the one from the old site with all the strange formatting and a couple of odd trolls who dipped in from time to time. Lots of useful info from Mike C himself.
I cannot find the answer to this. Don’t know if anyone can help out.
With the L4 workouts what is the importance of changing the stroke rate several times in each 6’ or 10’ sequence? I am new to it and really struggle with the consistency over just 2’. On a 2’ 16 rate I find my pace jumping around +/- 4” and then I’ll be at 18 strokes after one minute so have drop to 14 to get the 32 strokes for the 2’.
Last session I did 1,036 strokes in 60’ and, with a lot of concentration and many adjustments hit each 10’ sequence with the right number of stokes. Today I thought I’d work for longer periods at the rates so did 10’ sequences of just 16/18/20 SPM and found with the longer sessions at one rate and pace I could get into the rhythm and feel of that. Again I hit the right number of strokes, 1,040 for this session, but am I missing the training effect if I do 10’ at 16 SPM then 10’ at 18 SPM rather than 2’ at 16 and 2 at 18 repeated five times?
The smart option is always to let MC answer because if you put a foot wrong he will. But devil loves a coward so will venture a guess that the “training effects” targeted by Level 4 in the context of UMich women’s rowing program were:

1) accurate regulation of rate and instantaneous rate changes without benefit of cox or stroke oar (frequent changes=lots of practice),
2) ditto pace,
3) a progression of hard workouts with ice on the river, and
4) a passing acquaintance with the awkward working relationship of mod 6 and 10.

Putting Wolverine to one side for the moment, note that the 2’ segment also dominates the C2 WODS which stipulate rate changes. Caviston’s sequences can of course use segments of 3,2,1’ or 4,3,2,1’ as do the C2 dailies. WP and a lot of lower case, done at uni stuff has a shared lineage in OTW race prep. You’re getting the workout of your choosing. If it ain’t Wolverine, Mike will tell you.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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max_ratcliffe
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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by max_ratcliffe » December 23rd, 2020, 12:00 am

Tony Cook wrote:
December 22nd, 2020, 6:44 pm
Just resurrecting this thread of the many Wolverine ones as it is the most recent.
I have read up all I can find on the WP, including the one from the old site with all the strange formatting and a couple of odd trolls who dipped in from time to time. Lots of useful info from Mike C himself.
I cannot find the answer to this. Don’t know if anyone can help out.
With the L4 workouts what is the importance of changing the stroke rate several times in each 6’ or 10’ sequence? I am new to it and really struggle with the consistency over just 2’. On a 2’ 16 rate I find my pace jumping around +/- 4” and then I’ll be at 18 strokes after one minute so have drop to 14 to get the 32 strokes for the 2’.
Last session I did 1,036 strokes in 60’ and, with a lot of concentration and many adjustments hit each 10’ sequence with the right number of stokes. Today I thought I’d work for longer periods at the rates so did 10’ sequences of just 16/18/20 SPM and found with the longer sessions at one rate and pace I could get into the rhythm and feel of that. Again I hit the right number of strokes, 1,040 for this session, but am I missing the training effect if I do 10’ at 16 SPM then 10’ at 18 SPM rather than 2’ at 16 and 2 at 18 repeated five times?
I doubt there will be much if any difference in your body's response, but there will be a difference in the way you progress your training. If someone is just starting out with L4s and does, say 168-168-168-168, then the next step for a 40' workout would be to swap out one of the 168s with a 172.

The rate of progression is sort of defined for you, although it can obviously be abused by overstroking or jumping from 168x4 to 192x6 or whatever overnight.

Anyway that's my take on it.
50 HWT
PBs:
Rower 1'=329m; 500m=1:34.0; 1k=3:25:1; 2k=7:16.5; 5k=19:44; 6k=23:24; 30'=7582m; 10k=40.28; 60'=14621m; HM=1:27:46
SkiErg 1'=298m; 500m=1:42.4; 1k=3:36.0; 2k=7:43.8; 5k=20:35; 6k=25:29; 30'=7239m; 10k=42:35; 60'=13358m; HM=NGTFH

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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by jamesg » December 23rd, 2020, 3:50 am

With the L4 workouts what is the importance of changing the stroke rate several times in each 6’ or 10’ sequence?
If a crew can't go afloat for some time, it's important that they all work with the same timing and rhythm. This includes during rate changes, which are a part of racing.

For ergers, using performance based pace/rating relatonships ensures that training extends to the stroke itself, where it's most needed. The L4 is perhaps the only type work that prescribes the stroke directly. The pace variations remove monotony and time flies. Further there's no need to try to govern HR, but if we wish, we can still see what the H can do.
08-1940, 183cm, 84kg. Last seen MHR 158 in 2k = 220 - 77% of age.
2021-2: stroke 6 W-min. ½k 1:55.5; 1k 4:09.2; 2k 8:42.2; 5k 23:15; 30' 6247; 10k 49:36.

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max_ratcliffe
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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by max_ratcliffe » December 23rd, 2020, 4:29 am

jamesg wrote:
December 23rd, 2020, 3:50 am
With the L4 workouts what is the importance of changing the stroke rate several times in each 6’ or 10’ sequence?
<>
The pace variations remove monotony and time flies. Further there's no need to try to govern HR, but if we wish, we can still see what the H can do.
Yes. This is a very good point. L4 workouts are good fun and a great way of doing long pieces without getting bored.
50 HWT
PBs:
Rower 1'=329m; 500m=1:34.0; 1k=3:25:1; 2k=7:16.5; 5k=19:44; 6k=23:24; 30'=7582m; 10k=40.28; 60'=14621m; HM=1:27:46
SkiErg 1'=298m; 500m=1:42.4; 1k=3:36.0; 2k=7:43.8; 5k=20:35; 6k=25:29; 30'=7239m; 10k=42:35; 60'=13358m; HM=NGTFH

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hjs
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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by hjs » December 23rd, 2020, 4:54 am

Tony Cook wrote:
December 22nd, 2020, 6:44 pm
Just resurrecting this thread of the many Wolverine ones as it is the most recent.
I have read up all I can find on the WP, including the one from the old site with all the strange formatting and a couple of odd trolls who dipped in from time to time. Lots of useful info from Mike C himself.
I cannot find the answer to this. Don’t know if anyone can help out.
With the L4 workouts what is the importance of changing the stroke rate several times in each 6’ or 10’ sequence? I am new to it and really struggle with the consistency over just 2’. On a 2’ 16 rate I find my pace jumping around +/- 4” and then I’ll be at 18 strokes after one minute so have drop to 14 to get the 32 strokes for the 2’.
Last session I did 1,036 strokes in 60’ and, with a lot of concentration and many adjustments hit each 10’ sequence with the right number of stokes. Today I thought I’d work for longer periods at the rates so did 10’ sequences of just 16/18/20 SPM and found with the longer sessions at one rate and pace I could get into the rhythm and feel of that. Again I hit the right number of strokes, 1,040 for this session, but am I missing the training effect if I do 10’ at 16 SPM then 10’ at 18 SPM rather than 2’ at 16 and 2 at 18 repeated five times?
Idea is also to slowly increase the number of strokes during the season, the only way to do that is by using small steps.
Also, rate changes make it a bit tougher, straight 10min pieces will have a different hf compared to a say 4321 piece with the same number of strokes.

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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by Tony Cook » December 23rd, 2020, 10:01 am

Thanks for the responses. I understand that to increase by the recommended 4-8 strokes per session you have to mix rates around in some sessions. Maybe it is, as some have suggested, to keep the mind occupied. I think I may keep doing some longer times at one pace until I become proficient at that rate and pace and then look to mix it around as per the plan.
Born 1963 6' 5" 100Kg
PBs only from 2020 - 100m 15.7s - 1min 355m - 500m 1:28.4 - 1k 3:10.6 - 2k 6:31.6 - 5k 17:34.9 - 6k 20:57.5 - 30min @ 20SPM 8,336m - 10k 36:28.0 - 1 hour 16,094m - HM 1:18:51.7

Mike Caviston
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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by Mike Caviston » December 27th, 2020, 5:01 pm

Tony Cook wrote:
December 22nd, 2020, 6:44 pm
am I missing the training effect if I do 10’ at 16 SPM then 10’ at 18 SPM rather than 2’ at 16 and 2 at 18 repeated five times?
Just taking strokes is a big part of training, but yes, you would be missing the full training effect. You can look elsewhere for a detailed description of the combined physiological and neurological benefits I believe occur. But as a beginner, worry first about doing L4 sequences getting the ratings accurate, even if the splits jump around a bit. Once you're comfortable with rating changes, get strict with the paces. Good luck.

Tony Cook
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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by Tony Cook » December 27th, 2020, 7:40 pm

Mike Caviston wrote:
December 27th, 2020, 5:01 pm
Tony Cook wrote:
December 22nd, 2020, 6:44 pm
am I missing the training effect if I do 10’ at 16 SPM then 10’ at 18 SPM rather than 2’ at 16 and 2 at 18 repeated five times?
Just taking strokes is a big part of training, but yes, you would be missing the full training effect. You can look elsewhere for a detailed description of the combined physiological and neurological benefits I believe occur. But as a beginner, worry first about doing L4 sequences getting the ratings accurate, even if the splits jump around a bit. Once you're comfortable with rating changes, get strict with the paces. Good luck.
Thanks for replying, Mike. I was sure there was a good reason, otherwise you would have just said e.g. 6’ @ 16 SPM, 4’ @ 18 SPM rather than 2’ of each rate alternating.
I did one session of 10’ of each of 16, 18 and 20 SPM (gave me a sort of L4 session of 160,180,200,160,180,160) just to get the rate and rhythm, it really helped me get used to the 16 and 18 rates. Since then I have stuck to the WP L4 sequences and found it much easier to adjust to the different rates. Done 3 60’ sessions all within 3 strokes and 50m.
Sticking with the plan.
Born 1963 6' 5" 100Kg
PBs only from 2020 - 100m 15.7s - 1min 355m - 500m 1:28.4 - 1k 3:10.6 - 2k 6:31.6 - 5k 17:34.9 - 6k 20:57.5 - 30min @ 20SPM 8,336m - 10k 36:28.0 - 1 hour 16,094m - HM 1:18:51.7

kcavorsi
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Re: Wolverine plan

Post by kcavorsi » May 1st, 2021, 10:39 am

L3 Continuous 16K
Goal pace: 1:59.8
Pace: 1:59.7
Time: 1:03:51
Average spm: 25

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