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First 2k as a Lightweight - what went wrong?
Posted: November 22nd, 2020, 8:29 am
by DNA_Rower
Yesterday I did my first ever competitive 2k, in the online Scottish Indoor Championships M40 Lightweight 2k. My time was 7:07.5.
It's only the 4th proper 2k I have ever done. My PB is 6:56.9 from 2017. My first ever 2k,back in 2011 when I had no idea how painful it would be, was 7:07.4.
The main difference between them all is my weight. When I did my PB, I weighed 83.4kg. Yesterday for the race, I weighed 74.5kg. Since pandemic lockdown I have been erging more and eating better, so my weight has been hovering around 78kg. I decided to enter as Lightweight as I figured I would be more competitive. I don't remember the last I weighed <75kg, since pre-pandemic my normal weight range was 82-84kg. I am 184cm tall (6 foot).
So I'm trying to work out why my 2k yesterday so bad.
In June this year I got my 5k PB (18:29.5 at 79kg) and my 30min PB (8,005m at 78kg), which I was pretty pleased with. They are way better than my 5k and 30min when I got my 2k PB (18:37.5 and 7,942m).
I'm not quite on peak fitness as I was when I did the 5k/30min PBs as I cycled more than erged in last few months, but I am on the Pete Plan and my last speed pyramid was at 1:44.9, which would suggest I should have managed to scrape in under 7min in the 2k.
So I am really trying to work out why yesterday's 2k was so bad. I just had nothing extra to give in the last 500m (
you can see my stats here). It could have been psychological, but I was fairly worked up for the race. I am assuming it has something to do with my weight and that I did not have enough energy stores. I did weigh-in in the morning, then eat a breakfast (two croissants) then had peanut butter and jelly on toast for lunch, then had some energy gel shortly before starting.
Does anyone have any idea how it could have gone so badly? I am wondering whether to try and redeem myself by entering the British championships which are in two weeks. If I do I would assume to enter in Lightweight again, even though it means eating pretty carefully for another two weeks.
Re: First 2k as a Lightweight - what went wrong?
Posted: November 22nd, 2020, 8:35 am
by hjs
Re speed piramide as an indicator. If you pulled 145 on that, this really pointed at a 7,08 ish 2k. If you use it as an indicator only use the 750 s and 1k. Overall you should be a good bit faster.
Think you clearly not just lost fat but also muscle. Eating “healthy” is fine, but not eating not.
Re indicator Pete plan, the nmr1 and very accurate is the 4x1k on 5min. There is no way hiding there. Its always close to 2k plus 1 on the average.
Re: First 2k as a Lightweight - what went wrong?
Posted: November 22nd, 2020, 8:46 am
by flatbread
I know next to nothing about erging, but I am more than familiar with relative energy deficit.
I currently weigh 78kg -- well over the 71-75kg that I kept myself at for the better part of 30 years, watching everything I ate, counting kjoules on the powermeter, adjusting my food intake to meet training demand, and generally feeling less than stellar most of the time, although I was a very fast bike racer and could ride up long hills and mountains better than most other amateurs (but not pros...oh they are on another level). But, I was rubbish for anything under about 10 minutes unless it was on a 6-7% grade. Cutting calories means eating into your body's reserves, and where that really shows is in long glycolytic efforts (6-8min hard as a you can). I'm at the same body fat as I was at 71kg. I feel a lot better, and I don't think I could erg at the level I'm erging now if I lost 3-4kg.
I'd add that the negative effects of energy deficit are a bit worse as you get older. The last race I did at 71kg was in June of 2019, and although I finished on the podium next to a pair of national champions, I felt sluggish for a month afterwards, as I'd lost 4kg over two months to get to that weight. Easy at 25, pretty rotten at 52. That I did that for all of 50 bucks of prize money made it all the more questionable.
I'd say train well, rest well, and let your body weight be what it's going to be. Better to pull the higher score on the erg and be feeding yourself enough than fark with your metabolism just to be a lightweight.
Re: First 2k as a Lightweight - what went wrong?
Posted: November 22nd, 2020, 8:59 am
by Dangerscouse
I'm not sure about the weight issue, but the virtual racing system isn't ideal to PB, not least as you have a racing start, you don't choose the time you race, and you may have already peaked in your fitness/form. There isn't the audience effect to pull you through either.
BRIC might be a good idea for you now as you can you use your frustration as fuel. It's still a strong result, so don't berate yourself, I struggled yesterday with the last 500m, and there wasn't anything there for me either
Re: First 2k as a Lightweight - what went wrong?
Posted: November 22nd, 2020, 9:13 am
by DNA_Rower
hjs wrote: ↑November 22nd, 2020, 8:35 am
Re speed piramide as an indicator. If you pulled 145 on that, this really pointed at a 7,08 ish 2k. If you use it as an indicator only use the 750 s and 1k. Overall you should be a good bit faster.
Think you clearly not just lost fat but also muscle. Eating “healthy” is fine, but not eating not.
Re indicator Pete plan, the nmr1 and very accurate is the 4x1k on 5min. There is no way hiding there. Its always close to 2k plus 1 on the average.
Actually, I'd done a 4*1000m more recently than the Speed Pyramid and got 1:47.1, which would have suggested I should have got 7:04, so maybe I am not so far off real pace.
When I look back at my 2k PB, my Speed Pyramid time a week before was 1:42.8 so I suppose I was much faster then.
So maybe it is a combination of training timing. I wasn't able to hit peak as I only started back on the PP about 6 weeks ago after cycling this Summer. Also maybe I am just meant to be heavier.
I think I will enter the British at Hwt this time and eat unrestricted the next two weeks.
Re: First 2k as a Lightweight - what went wrong?
Posted: November 22nd, 2020, 9:21 am
by hjs
DNA_Rower wrote: ↑November 22nd, 2020, 9:13 am
hjs wrote: ↑November 22nd, 2020, 8:35 am
Re speed piramide as an indicator. If you pulled 145 on that, this really pointed at a 7,08 ish 2k. If you use it as an indicator only use the 750 s and 1k. Overall you should be a good bit faster.
Think you clearly not just lost fat but also muscle. Eating “healthy” is fine, but not eating not.
Re indicator Pete plan, the nmr1 and very accurate is the 4x1k on 5min. There is no way hiding there. Its always close to 2k plus 1 on the average.
Actually, I'd done a 4*1000m more recently than the Speed Pyramid and got 1:47.1, which would have suggested I should have got 7:04, so maybe I am not so far off real pace.
When I look back at my 2k PB, my Speed Pyramid time a week before was 1:42.8 so I suppose I was much faster then.
So maybe it is a combination of training timing. I wasn't able to hit peak as I only started back on the PP about 6 weeks ago after cycling this Summer. Also maybe I am just meant to be heavier.
I think I will enter the British at Hwt this time and eat unrestricted the next two weeks.
Don’t know how lean you are. Its certainly not impossible to row fast being lighter. Most top lightweights are your height or more. Maybe you eat a bit more, no need to get lighter anymore. Rowing at say 77/78 would be a bit in nomans land.
Only 6 weeks is a short buildup. Give yourself some time I would say.
Re: First 2k as a Lightweight - what went wrong?
Posted: November 22nd, 2020, 12:03 pm
by robbiep
hjs wrote: ↑November 22nd, 2020, 9:21 am
... ...
Only 6 weeks is a short buildup. Give yourself some time I would say.
I'd agree with this. Six weeks is nowhere near enough to get fully sharp on the rower if you've been primarily cycling all summer.
Re: First 2k as a Lightweight - what went wrong?
Posted: November 22nd, 2020, 1:02 pm
by winniewinser
DNA_Rower wrote: ↑November 22nd, 2020, 8:29 am
Yesterday I did my first ever competitive 2k, in the online Scottish Indoor Championships M40 Lightweight 2k. My time was 7:07.5.
It's only the 4th proper 2k I have ever done. My PB is 6:56.9 from 2017. My first ever 2k,back in 2011 when I had no idea how painful it would be, was 7:07.4.
The main difference between them all is my weight. When I did my PB, I weighed 83.4kg. Yesterday for the race, I weighed 74.5kg. Since pandemic lockdown I have been erging more and eating better, so my weight has been hovering around 78kg. I decided to enter as Lightweight as I figured I would be more competitive. I don't remember the last I weighed <75kg, since pre-pandemic my normal weight range was 82-84kg. I am 184cm tall (6 foot).
So I'm trying to work out why my 2k yesterday so bad.
In June this year I got my 5k PB (18:29.5 at 79kg) and my 30min PB (8,005m at 78kg), which I was pretty pleased with. They are way better than my 5k and 30min when I got my 2k PB (18:37.5 and 7,942m).
I'm not quite on peak fitness as I was when I did the 5k/30min PBs as I cycled more than erged in last few months, but I am on the Pete Plan and my last speed pyramid was at 1:44.9, which would suggest I should have managed to scrape in under 7min in the 2k.
So I am really trying to work out why yesterday's 2k was so bad. I just had nothing extra to give in the last 500m (
you can see my stats here). It could have been psychological, but I was fairly worked up for the race. I am assuming it has something to do with my weight and that I did not have enough energy stores. I did weigh-in in the morning, then eat a breakfast (two croissants) then had peanut butter and jelly on toast for lunch, then had some energy gel shortly before starting.
Does anyone have any idea how it could have gone so badly? I am wondering whether to try and redeem myself by entering the British championships which are in two weeks. If I do I would assume to enter in Lightweight again, even though it means eating pretty carefully for another two weeks.
I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, it was a good performance on limited training and under first time competition conditions. Your PB was 3yrs ago and as a heavyweight so getting this close to it under these conditions is pretty good imo. I think dropping weight in a short period of time may have had a negative impact. I know I would have felt it.
I can only really draw on my own experience since starting to row as a LWT in January. I've always been slim and the weight has naturally levelled off for me around 75kg. I'm 6'2" so that is pretty skinny but I don't really have to watch what I eat to maintain that. If I was having to be very vigilant to get there I don't think I'd bother. So as others have said let your weight be what it will be and enjoy the erging along the way.
My own race performance was far from optimal and even with a small PB I was dissapointed. But we're supposed to be doing this for enjoyment. None of us will be world beaters so try and enjoy the process of improvement. Sub 7 is just around the corner for you!
Good luck
Re: First 2k as a Lightweight - what went wrong?
Posted: December 9th, 2020, 8:57 am
by flatbread
you row on the water, right? so maybe you don't worry about weight and just get the best condition and technique that you can.
an alternate view from the Biorower guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiB9FyRvnhs
Re: First 2k as a Lightweight - what went wrong?
Posted: December 10th, 2020, 6:21 pm
by DNA_Rower
Unfortunately I haven't been on water for many years. Just the rowing machine for me these days.
That said, I did the BRIC at the weekend and knocked 7s off the above time, and managed to get below 7:00 again, so all is not lost. I have a feeling that within a few more cycles of the Pete Plan I could be back in PB range. I made some massive in gains in a session tonight.
