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500m sprint times
Posted: June 6th, 2020, 10:40 pm
by dbo
Hello, new guy here.
I’ve been rowing for 8 years on a C2 to stay in shape, gradually increasing my distance and time over the years. I typically row between 14k and 17k daily with running and HIIT mixed in.
I’m getting bored with the routine and tried some 500m sprints today and evidently suck at them.
Any pointers on improving them? It's not a fatigue issue, I rowed another 9k afterward and felt fine.
Damper is set on 5 w/ a drag factor of 125.
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 7th, 2020, 6:59 am
by Carl Watts
So what was your 500m time ?
Your drag factor is a bit low for sprints and you also need to get your rating up high.
Its raw power so depending on your build you may just be better at distance and not sprints.
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 7th, 2020, 7:56 am
by lindsayh
dbo wrote: ↑June 6th, 2020, 10:40 pm
I’m getting bored with the routine and tried some 500m sprints today and evidently suck at them.
Any pointers on improving them? It's not a fatigue issue, I rowed another 9k afterward and felt fine.
Damper is set on 5 w/ a drag factor of 125.
welcome. If you are very aerobic/cardio rather than an anerobe then you may just be physiologically less suited. What was the time and stroke rate?
to be very fast at 500 you need to be able to be able to stroke fast (rates >35) and strong. You need to be fit too - it is not just a sprint but a middle distance "fly and die" for most. You will probably do better with a DF around 140 or above (some go to 160).
Some weight training for power will help and short hard intervals with longer rests.
This is an account written by Leo Young who has held the WR for about 30 years @1:10.5 (now shared with Phil Clapp and Loren Howard)
Note he did a lot of training at low drag but not on the day and it took him a year
To perform optimally over 500 meters, you need a base of good strength (developed primarily around lifts like deadlift variations, squat variations and seated rows, or similar movements), decent speed (best developed with very short max speed sprints on the erg at very low drag, with 2 to 3 minutes rest between sprints), as well as a very good maxVO2 (I had a maxVO2 of 7.6/L min at a HR of 158 and a weight of 90kg, prior to specifically building my strength levels and lactic power in my lead up to my 1:10.5 for 500m), but most importantly you need great lactic power as well as lactic acid tolerance.
The more muscle mass you have (I added 12kg of lean muscle to attempt my 500m), the greater your lactic power potential, which you then need to develop with max effort intervals on the erg in the 20 to 30 second range, with 5 to 10 minutes active recovery between intervals. Lactic acid tolerance (LATol), on the other hand, is then well trained with slightly longer intervals (e.g. 30 to 45 seconds) with shorter rest intervals (30 to 45 seconds), as well as also being effectively trained doing maxVO2/HR efforts.
20 to 40 minute low intensity aerobic workouts 1.5 to 2 mmol lactate) on the days in between the high intensity strength, lactic and maxVO2 workouts will aid recovery and actually indirectly help improve your lactic acid tolerance potential. However, avoid doing too many long slow distance workouts, which will have too much of a detrimental effect on your critical fast twitch fibers. It's critical to do no more than 3 high intensity workouts a week, which includes any strength training, maxVoO2, anaerobic threshold, lactic power, or lactic tolerance training. So clever programming is critical.
Do maxVO2 training by doing intervals at max HR pace (either 3 to 5 minute intervals with 3 to 5 minutes active recovery, or alternatively over 3 to 5 minutes build HR and pace to up around your anaerobic threshold or max lactate steady state pace and then sit at max HR pace for for 1.5 to 3 minutes, depending on fitness level), as well as doing some training sessions where you spend 15 to 30 minutes at your anaerobic threshold (AnT) or max lactate steady state pace (MLSS). A good combo AnT/maxVO2/LATol session is after a 15 minute warm-up, do a 20 minute effort where you build to AnT over the first 3 minutes or so, then spend 15 minutes at AnT/MLSS pace and then go to maxVO2 (max HR) pace for the final 1.5 to 3 minutes.
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 7th, 2020, 9:30 am
by Dangerscouse
As mentioned above, it sounds like you are currently used to just doing long and slow distances so you're just not adapted to the short stuff.
It's a different kind of tolerance for a 500m compared to a 15km even if they are both done at your limit, and the only way you get better at them is to train at them.
I'm never going to be a great short distance rower (anything less than 5k is short in my book
) as I'm just more inclined to aerobic than anaerobic, but I do improve with specific training over a number of weeks.
Don't convince yourself that you're not good at 500s after one attempt. Test yourself again after at least a month of proper training and I'm certain you will surprise yourself at how much better you have got, but in all reality you may not ever get that fast due to physiology
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 7th, 2020, 11:04 am
by dbo
Appreciate the responses. I'm definitely not used to the short stuff and always have been more inclined to aerobic activities rather than slow-twitch, power movements. My next go around, I'll bump up the drag factor 15-20 and see how that works.
Here are my times (I attempted to post a pic of the display originally but it didn't get posted)
time meter cal/hr s/m
22:39.0 5000 779 30
02:01.1 500 978 30
02:22.6 500 715 28
02:18.0 500 758 30
02:14.5 500 795 30
02:17.5 500 763 31
02:17.7 500 761 31
02:15.7 500 782 30
02:15.7 500 782 30
02:18.3 500 755 30
02:17.9 500 759 30
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 7th, 2020, 12:45 pm
by hjs
dbo wrote: ↑June 7th, 2020, 11:04 am
Appreciate the responses. I'm definitely not used to the short stuff and always have been more inclined to aerobic activities rather than slow-twitch, power movements. My next go around, I'll bump up the drag factor 15-20 and see how that works.
Here are my times (I attempted to post a pic of the display originally but it didn't get posted)
time meter cal/hr s/m
22:39.0 5000 779 30
02:01.1 500 978 30
02:22.6 500 715 28
02:18.0 500 758 30
02:14.5 500 795 30
02:17.5 500 763 31
02:17.7 500 761 31
02:15.7 500 782 30
02:15.7 500 782 30
02:18.3 500 755 30
02:17.9 500 759 30
A bit of confusion, you talk about 500m times but post a 5k time. A 500m sprint is a stand alone 500 only, nothing more nothing less. A 5k is a very different beast.
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 7th, 2020, 1:36 pm
by faach1
hjs wrote: ↑June 7th, 2020, 12:45 pm
dbo wrote: ↑June 7th, 2020, 11:04 am
Appreciate the responses. I'm definitely not used to the short stuff and always have been more inclined to aerobic activities rather than slow-twitch, power movements. My next go around, I'll bump up the drag factor 15-20 and see how that works.
Here are my times (I attempted to post a pic of the display originally but it didn't get posted)
time meter cal/hr s/m
22:39.0 5000 779 30
02:01.1 500 978 30
02:22.6 500 715 28
02:18.0 500 758 30
02:14.5 500 795 30
02:17.5 500 763 31
02:17.7 500 761 31
02:15.7 500 782 30
02:15.7 500 782 30
02:18.3 500 755 30
02:17.9 500 759 30
A bit of confusion, you talk about 500m times but post a 5k time. A 500m sprint is a stand alone 500 only, nothing more nothing less. A 5k is a very different beast.
Hjs, I think this is a 10x500m workout (with an unspecified period of rest from the OP), if I have assumed correctly, from what I have gathered from his postings.
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 7th, 2020, 1:43 pm
by jamesg
In that 5k, you averaged 140W at rate 30, so your technique needs to improve, putting more work into each stroke.
Make sure it's your legs that do the work, with the right sequences and plenty of length.
This video shows how rowing is done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0dzPz0tD5I
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 7th, 2020, 2:01 pm
by hjs
faach1 wrote: ↑June 7th, 2020, 1:36 pm
hjs wrote: ↑June 7th, 2020, 12:45 pm
dbo wrote: ↑June 7th, 2020, 11:04 am
Appreciate the responses. I'm definitely not used to the short stuff and always have been more inclined to aerobic activities rather than slow-twitch, power movements. My next go around, I'll bump up the drag factor 15-20 and see how that works.
Here are my times (I attempted to post a pic of the display originally but it didn't get posted)
time meter cal/hr s/m
22:39.0 5000 779 30
02:01.1 500 978 30
02:22.6 500 715 28
02:18.0 500 758 30
02:14.5 500 795 30
02:17.5 500 763 31
02:17.7 500 761 31
02:15.7 500 782 30
02:15.7 500 782 30
02:18.3 500 755 30
02:17.9 500 759 30
A bit of confusion, you talk about 500m times but post a 5k time. A 500m sprint is a stand alone 500 only, nothing more nothing less. A 5k is a very different beast.
Hjs, I think this is a 10x500m workout (with an unspecified period of rest from the OP), if I have assumed correctly, from what I have gathered from his postings.
Ok, a stand alone one still would be very different. The first 500 is lots faster than the rest, a set (if it was one) should preferably be much more close and if possible with the last one as the fastest.
If this is an interval training its, to put it politely not fast, even for a 5k this is slow. Think the op has a lot to gain on every front. Not wanting to be rude, but really think this looks like a beginner.
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 7th, 2020, 2:29 pm
by Dangerscouse
dbo wrote: ↑June 7th, 2020, 11:04 am
Appreciate the responses. I'm definitely not used to the short stuff and always have been more inclined to aerobic activities rather than slow-twitch, power movements. My next go around, I'll bump up the drag factor 15-20 and see how that works.
Here are my times (I attempted to post a pic of the display originally but it didn't get posted)
time meter cal/hr s/m
22:39.0 5000 779 30
02:01.1 500 978 30
02:22.6 500 715 28
02:18.0 500 758 30
02:14.5 500 795 30
02:17.5 500 763 31
02:17.7 500 761 31
02:15.7 500 782 30
02:15.7 500 782 30
02:18.3 500 755 30
02:17.9 500 759 30
Ok, what you need to do is focus more on really pushing with your legs (think jumping horizontally) to create a stronger leg drive.
Do some single leg squats and lunges (bodyweight is fine if you haven't got weights) to build up some strength. Aim to slowly lower and explosively push back up. 3 sets of 10 or 12 reps twice a week will do.
Start at circa 2:12 pace and build from there. That first rep at 2:01 has really took a lot of you so that is an unrealistic pace atm.
Finally, aim to just do four or five reps rather than 10. You will naturally not go as hard if you're doing 10 to save energy, but if you only do four you can focus on making them faster and building up from there.
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 7th, 2020, 2:56 pm
by dbo
Dangerscouse wrote: ↑June 7th, 2020, 2:29 pm
dbo wrote: ↑June 7th, 2020, 11:04 am
Appreciate the responses. I'm definitely not used to the short stuff and always have been more inclined to aerobic activities rather than slow-twitch, power movements. My next go around, I'll bump up the drag factor 15-20 and see how that works.
Here are my times (I attempted to post a pic of the display originally but it didn't get posted)
time meter cal/hr s/m
22:39.0 5000 779 30
02:01.1 500 978 30
02:22.6 500 715 28
02:18.0 500 758 30
02:14.5 500 795 30
02:17.5 500 763 31
02:17.7 500 761 31
02:15.7 500 782 30
02:15.7 500 782 30
02:18.3 500 755 30
02:17.9 500 759 30
Ok, what you need to do is focus more on really pushing with your legs (think jumping horizontally) to create a stronger leg drive.
Do some single leg squats and lunges (bodyweight is fine if you haven't got weights) to build up some strength. Aim to slowly lower and explosively push back up. 3 sets of 10 or 12 reps twice a week will do.
Start at circa 2:12 pace and build from there. That first rep at 2:01 has really took a lot of you so that is an unrealistic pace atm.
Finally, aim to just do four or five reps rather than 10. You will naturally not go as hard if you're doing 10 to save energy, but if you only do four you can focus on making them faster and building up from there.
Got it, I'll focus on increasing leg strength and shortening the # of rounds and see how that helps. My routine has historically been distance focused so this is a completely new animal to me. Thanks again-
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 7th, 2020, 4:15 pm
by Dangerscouse
dbo wrote: ↑June 7th, 2020, 2:56 pm
My routine has historically been distance focused so this is a completely new animal to me. Thanks again-
Good. You will improve quickly if you're untrained
.
It will be uncomfortable, but that's something you have to want to run towards, not away from. The sooner you get battle hardened the easier it will get, and a lot of it is mind games, as in shutting out the discomfort and focusing on what you want to achieve.
Other than slowly improving on your own times, don't set any expectations atm, and definitely don't compare yourself to others. You're a work in progress, so just keep bolstering your confidence
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 8th, 2020, 6:34 am
by lindsayh
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 10th, 2020, 3:13 am
by Gammmmo
dbo wrote: ↑June 6th, 2020, 10:40 pm
Hello, new guy here.
I’ve been rowing for 8 years on a C2 to stay in shape, gradually increasing my distance and time over the years. I typically row between 14k and 17k daily with running and HIIT mixed in.
I’m getting bored with the routine and tried some 500m sprints today and evidently suck at them.
Any pointers on improving them? It's not a fatigue issue, I rowed another 9k afterward and felt fine.
Damper is set on 5 w/ a drag factor of 125.
Not read all the other replies but this is the way I've gone i.e. from highly aerobic with a focus on 5K up to sprinting. In short:
1. experiment with higher DFs
2. plenty of sprint training sessions - see "sprints and stuff" thread
3. add in heavy compound exercises esp if targetting LP, 100m, 1min efforts - don't think this is as key as 2.
4. truncate the longer sessions - my bread and butter aerobic sessions are now a mere 5K and occasionally 7.5K
5. pay close attention to body "cohesion" - recovery and injury prevention and treating
6. don't run so much
Re: 500m sprint times
Posted: June 13th, 2020, 7:52 pm
by dbo
Gammmmo wrote: ↑June 10th, 2020, 3:13 am
dbo wrote: ↑June 6th, 2020, 10:40 pm
Hello, new guy here.
I’ve been rowing for 8 years on a C2 to stay in shape, gradually increasing my distance and time over the years. I typically row between 14k and 17k daily with running and HIIT mixed in.
I’m getting bored with the routine and tried some 500m sprints today and evidently suck at them.
Any pointers on improving them? It's not a fatigue issue, I rowed another 9k afterward and felt fine.
Damper is set on 5 w/ a drag factor of 125.
Not read all the other replies but this is the way I've gone i.e. from highly aerobic with a focus on 5K up to sprinting. In short:
1. experiment with higher DFs
2. plenty of sprint training sessions - see "sprints and stuff" thread
3. add in heavy compound exercises esp if targetting LP, 100m, 1min efforts - don't think this is as key as 2.
4. truncate the longer sessions - my bread and butter aerobic sessions are now a mere 5K and occasionally 7.5K
5. pay close attention to body "cohesion" - recovery and injury prevention and treating
6. don't run so much
Bingo on a lot of this.
Experimented again this morning after doing a lot suggestions from this thread during the week.
Watched some 500m sprints on youtube
Opened the dampener to 10 (never done before)
Strapped in (I usually don't)
Went balls out
500m sprint: 1.40.1