Rowing Form Feedback

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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Row2Run
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Rowing Form Feedback

Post by Row2Run » June 1st, 2020, 10:56 am

I am a 42-year-old beginner. I’ve logged about 220K so far. Started after running injury but fell in love and plan on continuing instead of running. I am 71” and 183 lbs.

I have lots of flexibility and mobility issues which likely affects my stroke. (i.e. as you can see from my catch my heels are up).
I know my feet should remain flat and my back straighter throughout but I can’t seem to get the handle in close enough to generate power without those poor accommodations. Also, I don’t feel like I get real flywheel resistance and power until the very end of the stroke.

Below is a youtube link if anyone can be so kind as to review it and give me feedback and tips.

https://youtu.be/78XZ9WstA94

Thank you!!

Cyclist2
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Re: Rowing Form Feedback

Post by Cyclist2 » June 1st, 2020, 12:11 pm

The basics are there. You could hinge forward more at the hips on the recovery. This might require dropping the footstretchers down one hole. Don't worry about a little heel rise at the catch, that's normal - you are trying too hard to keep your feet flat, which limits your catch position (think about applying pressure on a bike pedal - you use the ball of your foot, right?). The idea is to get in a strong catch position to use your legs fully.

The key to getting more power from the legs is having a strong, solid core to transfer that leg power through your body to the handle. At the finish, push your arms away first, bend from the hips, THEN start moving back up the rail toward the catch. This way you are in the strong catch position early and can really push with the legs.
Mark Underwood. Rower first, cyclist too.

Dangerscouse
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Re: Rowing Form Feedback

Post by Dangerscouse » June 1st, 2020, 12:42 pm

The things that I saw are:

Shoulders are a bit too tense and hunched up. Try and hold them ready but not tensed as you will leak power.

You need to make sure that your arms and back are linked in to the leg drive. When your legs have finished pushing your back and arms need to take over with a fluid motion.

Linked to the above comment you look like you're slightly 'shooting the slide' on occasions (your seat is sliding back before you have got any connection with the arms and back). This is why you don't feel much power until the end of the stroke as you are pulling too much eith your arms and back.

Try not to grip the handle really tightly. I only hook my fingers over and don't waste energy really gripping it.

Your hip hinge is too limited so try and emphasise the forward hinge at the catch (start) and the drive (end).

Don't worry about getting your heels flat, just try and get them down as quickly as possible. I always have a heel lift as my ankles are wrecked from basketball. A straighter back is also not strictly necessary, but a good strong braced core is essential.

Hope this helps
51 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

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ampire
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Re: Rowing Form Feedback

Post by ampire » June 1st, 2020, 12:51 pm

*Consider lowering the drag factor: You are a big guy, but I'd still set your damper lever a bit lower so you get a feel for the leg drive and speed, atleast initially. You can check drag factor and set it to 110. Right now, based on the lever position I think you are on 150.
*Lower your feet one hole so your heel sits lower.
*Heel lift is not a problem on the recovery into the catch, do not worry about it, that is an idea propagated by Dark Horse but it really isn't something to worry about.
*When you drive out of the catch, your heels should come down and your weight should press hard into the midfoot and heel. You should hold the handle loosely and feel the pull against your arms as your shoulders, arms, and hands provide the connection point.
*Drive hard with the legs and do not use your back and arms until your legs are fully extended or are very nearly fully extended, then you open up the back, and lastly finish with the arms. When you drive with the legs you should feel the pull against your arms, but keep your arms loose. The goal is to keep the handle accelerating until it finishes against your torso. Your arms should do less work and your legs should do more work, as the legs are stronger and more resilient to fatigue.
*Try to pull the handle slightly higher (just below nipple line). When you do this, you will also open your back a bit more.
*When you return from the finish, try to not lean as far forward into the catch and also avoid collapsing your torso into the catch, plank exercises might help.
*You can also try to deliberately slow down a bit on the recovery so you aren't racing back to the catch.
*Your abdomen isn't braced enough and collapses as you finish the recovery and approach the catch. Similarly, when you drive with your legs, keep your abdomen braced to avoid losing energy into the spine and also prevent back injury.
*The center of mass of your torso as you return should also be over the seat rather than in front of the seat.
*Take a look at these two videos
https://youtu.be/VE663Kg0c00
https://youtu.be/JLyOyWls9_Y

In the first video, the rower demonstrates fantastic form. He uses legs, body, hands on the drive and then hands, body, legs on the recovery. The coach breaks this movement down into basics and the rower shows how it can all be integrated into a smooth powerful stroke. As the rower increases his strokes per minute, the form does not change.

In the second video "Maximum power on the rowing machine", there is a section (~10 mins in) that describes a weak catch that slips the flywheel's clutch rather than engaging the flywheel fully. That is why you don't feel the resistance until late in the stroke. Because your leg drive is too slow and lacking force at the catch, the chain extends a bit without fully grabbing the flywheel. A lower damper setting will help feel this connection, as will the 1 foot in drill shown in the video (about halfway into it).
Last edited by ampire on June 1st, 2020, 1:38 pm, edited 5 times in total.
M36|5'8"/173CM|146lb/66KG|LWT|MHR 192|RHR 42|2020: 5K 18:52.9 (@1:53.2/500)|C2-D+Slides+EndureRow Seat+NSI Minicell Foam

mict450
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Re: Rowing Form Feedback

Post by mict450 » June 1st, 2020, 1:01 pm

You certainly have a beautiful place to erg! Where are you located? Your handle at the finish is inconsistent...sometimes at your navel, other times at your sternum. Your hands are also sometimes lower, other times higher during recovery. A little bit stiff & mechanical. Good effort. Thank you for posting.
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Row2Run
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Re: Rowing Form Feedback

Post by Row2Run » June 2nd, 2020, 12:00 pm

Thank you all for the feedback!!
I rowed 7K last night and followed many of the suggestions:
Cyclist2 wrote:
June 1st, 2020, 12:11 pm
You could hinge forward more at the hips on the recovery. This might require dropping the footstretchers down one hole.
Dangerscouse wrote:
June 1st, 2020, 12:42 pm
Your hip hinge is too limited so try and emphasise the forward hinge at the catch (start) and the drive (end).
ampire wrote:
June 1st, 2020, 12:51 pm
*Lower your feet one hole so your heel sits lower.
*Heel lift is not a problem on the recovery into the catch, do not worry about it, that is an idea propagated by Dark Horse but it really isn't something to worry about.
I really focused on hinging more at the hips at the start of the stroke and noticed a difference when I got to the catch. I definitely need to do some hamstring stretching- my tight hamstrings prevent me from getting far enough forward.

I dropped the foot stretchers one hole and noticed an immediate difference in my power.
Thank you for clarifying about keeping heels flat, I wont address that at least for now- too many other more important things to improve
ampire wrote:
June 1st, 2020, 12:51 pm
*Take a look at these two videos
https://youtu.be/VE663Kg0c00
https://youtu.be/JLyOyWls9_y
Great feedback!! Those videos really nailed it for me. Especially the second one. I definitely need to engaging the flywheel sooner and his video was perfect.
mict450 wrote:
June 1st, 2020, 1:01 pm
You certainly have a beautiful place to erg! Where are you located?
I am located in Northern New Jersey. My erg lives in my unfinished basement where I do most of my rows- when the weather is nice I carry it outside to my backyard. Nice backdrop for videos...
Thank you all again for the feedback. I have work to do!!

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