Musings on W’/S

[G-dub]

Or whatever the formula is...

So chasing a higher one over the last couple of years has coincided with unfavorable results. I used to row test pieces at r35 for 2K, r36 for 1K, 28 for 5K etc. I now need to row much lower rates because my fitness doesn’t allow for me to rate higher with my now higher W’/S. So, for instance, my last 1K was at r29 (granted, not max max).

This made me wonder if it’s not always about a higher one, although that would be nice. In other words, the 9.5 that allowed me to use rate for speed may have been better for me than the 10 /11 that doesn’t, knowing that there is only so much more time I would want to give to getting fitter. And knowing I probably won’t get fitter or faster as the years go by.

Does this make sense? The idea that finding your W/S based on proper rating for the test piece and then using that to inform training so that you don’t groove to heavy of a stroke for your fitness, vs working it from the other end (I want to row at 10 and am going to hammer my stroke to get there) like it seems like we do?

By the way, I’m not a diehard to W/S’. It is useful to a point, but I don’t think it’s something that is 100%

[Citroen]

I think W'/stroke was thoroughly discreditted during the musings of the mad professor.

[Carl Watts]

Oh no not that Watts per Stroke crap again. If your going to use it at least do the maths right. You cannot just take the average Watts and divide that by the strokes per minute. Its like the indoor rowing myth that will not die.

[max_ratcliffe]

I expect that any individual would have a sweet spot.

A short rower is going to have to stroke pretty hard to get a high SPI, and in the limit they'd be doing near-maximal strokes and fatigue would soon stop them getting anywhere.

A taller rower with a longer stroke would be able to do more work in that stroke (it's longer!) so could row with a higher SPI.

SPI doesn't strike me as nonsense, but clearly you can't just work on getting SPI as high as possible without actually being able to string together plenty of strokes.

"Unprecedented" and so on...

[Citroen]

I expect that any individual would have a sweet spot.

A short rower is going to have to stroke pretty hard to get a high SPI, and in the limit they'd be doing near-maximal strokes and fatigue would soon stop them getting anywhere.

A taller rower with a longer stroke would be able to do more work in that stroke (it's longer!) so could row with a higher SPI.

SPI doesn't strike me as nonsense, but clearly you can't just work on getting SPI as high as possible without actually being able to string together plenty of strokes.

"Unprecedented" and so on...

This was along the lines of what NavHaz (Jon Bone) postulated during the mad professor's reign (which the mad professor denied in a Trumpesque way).

[G-dub]

Yeah, like I said, I’m not really an adherent. I do notice that one can “groove” a certain pressure that is not productive. So it’s not an end in itself and doesn’t mean anything as it relates to what one can do on a test at various distances. I guess I’m saying that it might be more productive to work backwards to develop feel for the stroke pressures at lower rates based on higher rates, than pushing too heavy of a stroke at lower rates

[jurgwhitehouse]

it might be more productive to work backwards to develop feel for the stroke pressures at lower rates based on higher rates

I’ve used SPI with good results and do exactly this. My 5x12min intervals workout at 18 spm is paced at my 2K SPI. The stroke pressure feels hard but the overall intensity is manageable (upper UT1). I recommend trying it on 12min repeats, which is short enough to maintain focus and concentrate on efficient technique.

[Cyclist2]

I think W'/stroke was thoroughly discreditted during the musings of the mad professor.

I missed this discussion. Can you reference the thread so I can get caught up? Thanks.

[Citroen]

I won't do that I have better ways to waste my time.

Just search on "Cureton SPI site:c2forum.com" using Dr. Google's search engine.

[Carl Watts]

Pretty sure if it had any credibility it would have appeared in ErgData and there are things in that i never knew you could pull out of the PM5. RowPro has DPS or distance per stroke which is interesting especially if you can get to 13 to 14 meters. Most of the extra metrics are interesting rather than useful. Finally got the stroke counter that i had been waiting over 5 years for so that was great.

[jackarabit]

What does it matter that Ranger made absurd claims about the crucial importance of stroke power? SPI is a simple ratio that states average power creation at any rate. It ain’t the keys to the kingdom or Aladdin’s lamp.

The rationale and defense of low rate work has always been the development of grunt in the drive accessed by way of a recovery:drive ratio which delays fatigue to the effect of maximizing reps.

Rate is the multiplier if you rate up and maintain power constant. Rate is the compensator If you rate up and power decreases. (Swallowing small bites with high frequency gets the hotdog et as well as 1RM.

I know too much of anything makes Jack a dull old boy and the anything is almost always the thing I most enjoy doing. Mix it up, Glenn.

[Carl Watts]

Nothing wrong with mixing up the ratings but if your going to make up some useless metric at least get the math for it correct.

[jackarabit]

Nothing wrong with mixing up the ratings but if your going to make up some useless metric at least get the math for it correct.

Ohm my god, watt next? I get a feeling the correct expression is gonna involve joules.