Feedback on SPM and Drag Factor

[svish]

Trying to do the Concept2 Mud Madness challenge (10km x 25 within March). I'm not a professional rower, and far from good at it, but trying to improve.

Re SPM
I was wondering, for a 10k, what SPM do you generally aim for? I seem to be averaging around 26-28. Is that "good"?

Re Drag Factor
I read the guide on Concept2 website, and seems they recommend around 110-120? According to my ErgData, mine is at 97. Should I increase it? Will it be easier to "row better" with a higher drag factor? For example, if my SPM should be lower, will a higher drag factor help that to feel more natural? Or maybe not?



If it helps for giving advice, here are two logbook entries from this week:

Yesterday, where I tried hard, and succeeded(!), to get below 45 minutes:
https://log.concept2.com/profile/932893/log/42579052

Earlier this week, where I just tried to stay below 50:
https://log.concept2.com/profile/932893/log/42500552

[G-dub]

What you are doing is fine, especially if you stick with it and accomplish what you set out to do. Many would inch the drag a little higher into the low 100s. As far as stroke rate, many think about stroke rate in the context of what the workout is trying to accomplish. So if it’s just a row within aerobic ranges, many would be in the 20-22 range (or lower or higher). If one was going for a PB, the rates would be 26 or higher.

I think that many would say to work on a strong stroke with a strong leg drive while you are training. So a rate in the 18-20-22 range tends to allow that, while also allowing a bit more recovery between strokes so you can keep at it.

[ampire]

Low drag factor is fine and helps encourage good quick strong leg drive. Nothing wrong with using low drag factor especially if doing aerobic training. I've been using around 100 drag factor and it feels better to me.

For 10K aerobic training you want rate 20, if you want a personal best its probably going to be 26 to 30 SPM. You can leave the drag factor at 100.

If you are doing a time trial 2K then you'd probably want a higher drag factor. It increases the amount of air entering the fan cage, increasing the drag on the fan and causing the fan to slow down faster. Decelerating the fan faster would accommodate a higher rating of strokes per minute, the fan will decelerate faster between strokes. For 2K TT you might rate 32 to 36. You could use 120 to 140 for the drag factor for the 2K.

[Allan Olesen]

For example, if my SPM should be lower, will a higher drag factor help that to feel more natural?

Probably the opposite.

When you increase the drag factor, the flywheel will spin down more between strokes.

When you lower your stroke rate, the flywheel will also spin down more between strokes.

So if you make both changes at once, the flywheel will probably spin down a lot more than you are used to, and that may be too much of a change in one go.

[Anth_F]

Re SPM
I was wondering, for a 10k, what SPM do you generally aim for? I seem to be averaging around 26-28. Is that "good"?

Re Drag Factor
I read the guide on Concept2 website, and seems they recommend around 110-120? According to my ErgData, mine is at 97. Should I increase it? Will it be easier to "row better" with a higher drag factor? For example, if my SPM should be lower, will a higher drag factor help that to feel more natural? Or maybe not?

Re: Q1
It depends what sort of 10k you plan to do, if it's a TT then your current spm is in the ballpark. If it's SS then your spm is too high and you should be aiming for 19-22 spm.

Re: Q2
Drag factor is very much a matter of personal preference. But generally anything from 110-130 is fine. For you i'd suggest starting at the lower end to develop a decent technique. Then give it a few months and you can start experimenting a bit with it to fine tune things.

[hjs]

For example, if my SPM should be lower, will a higher drag factor help that to feel more natural?

Probably the opposite.

When you increase the drag factor, the flywheel will spin down more between strokes.

When you lower your stroke rate, the flywheel will also spin down more between strokes.

So if you make both changes at once, the flywheel will probably spin down a lot more than you are used to, and that may be too much of a change in one go.

Correct.

For the rest, re op, you are doing fine. Read around a bit on the forum, that will answer lots.

[Dangerscouse]

Don't overthink drag factor. It really doesn't make much difference unless you're far too high or far too low, and it is far more important to find what feels right to you and what maximises your potential

[jamesg]

I was wondering, for a 10k, what SPM do you generally aim for? I seem to be averaging around 26-28. Is that "good"?

You don't aim for ratings as such, but only as a means to produce a certain amount of power, once you have learnt to pull a full length solid stroke, and as a step on the way to racing.

Pieces like 10k are for training in the UT2 and slow UT1 range (refering to power levels or HR), so done at ratings 18-22 according to size and at about 2W/kg according to age. The low ratings make it possible to row with a comfortable 3:1 rhythm (recovery-pull time ratio), or even 4:1.

Ratings in the 26-28 range are usually for Aerobic Threshold work, so typically could be medium intervals for race preparation, such as 2 x 7 to 3 x 8 minutes. Rhythm will likely be 3:1, but the pull on low drag will be decidely hard and fast to allow that rating, which begins to approach race speeds.

If you weigh say 80 kg (with BMI 25 or less) and are of racing age, you should be able to row at 160 - 200 W and rate 20 with little difficulty.

And rowing is not difficult, technically; the problem is that a a technically good stroke is very hard work, so we have to keep the ratings low in order to work hard in each stroke (aka training), but limit the overall power to what our CV system can accept on that day.

[svish]

Thank you everyone for answers! So it seems I should probably try to slow down my SPM a bit, but when I try to row slower then the recovery often tend to feel "strained" or "unnatural", or how to explain it... Does anyone have advice on what might cause that?

Is it related to the drag factor? Or is it "where" i rest? Should I rest at the front, back, or move forward slower?

[Dangerscouse]

Thank you everyone for answers! So it seems I should probably try to slow down my SPM a bit, but when I try to row slower then the recovery often tend to feel "strained" or "unnatural", or how to explain it... Does anyone have advice on what might cause that?

Is it related to the drag factor? Or is it "where" i rest? Should I rest at the front, back, or move forward slower?

Rowing at 18-20 when you are so used to rowing at 26-28 will feel very different. Lower it down slowly e.g. 1 or 2 spm per week just to get used to each stroke zone as there is a different breathing sequence required for each and lower strokes unless you lower your pace too will also take more strength to move the flywheel.

I used to row for years at r28/30 and it still feels very natural to me but it took me about six weeks to get used to rowing at r18/20 so it's to be expected that it feels unnatural.

Your drive (start) should always be explosive; the catch (middle) should also be very similar imo (other may disagree), but it's the recovery (sliding back to the catch) that is slowed down to get your stroke rate lower. There's no need to rush the recovery if you are trying to do a steady pace.

Also unless you're doing under 500m there is no need to change your drag factor

[svish]

Rowing at 18-20 when you are so used to rowing at 26-28 will feel very different. Lower it down slowly e.g. 1 or 2 spm per week just to get used to each stroke zone as there is a different breathing sequence required for each and lower strokes unless you lower your pace too will also take more strength to move the flywheel.

I used to row for years at r28/30 and it still feels very natural to me but it took me about six weeks to get used to rowing at r18/20 so it's to be expected that it feels unnatural.

Your drive (start) should always be explosive; the catch (middle) should also be very similar imo (other may disagree), but it's the recovery (sliding back to the catch) that is slowed down to get your stroke rate lower. There's no need to rush the recovery if you are trying to do a steady pace.

Also unless you're doing under 500m there is no need to change your drag factor

That makes sense. Good advice! Sounds like a good idea to experiment with this during this March Mud Madness thing then, try to lower my SPM gradually and see how it feels.

Thanks!

[Allan Olesen]

Or is it "where" i rest? Should I rest at the front, back, or move forward slower?

You shouldn't rest. You should be in constant movement during the recovery.

I prefer to do the start and the end of the recovery as a rather fast motion and slow down a lot in the middle of the recovery. It makes everything feel more fluent.

Especially if you pause at the end of the recovery, the movement will feel very jerky. There is kind of a natural elasticity in the body, which you can use when you go directly from forward movement to backward movement without any rest.

[svish]

You shouldn't rest. You should be in constant movement during the recovery.

I prefer to do the start and the end of the recovery as a rather fast motion and slow down a lot in the middle of the recovery. It makes everything feel more fluent.

Especially if you pause at the end of the recovery, the movement will feel very jerky. There is kind of a natural elasticity in the body, which you can use when you go directly from forward movement to backward movement without any rest.

Tried slowing down today, and slowed down a lot, and it really was jerky, haha. But yeah, quite a challenge this

I think slowing down, forcing more explosive use of the legs (and body in general), has revealed I have quite a bit to go on strength/endurance there. Having to be more explosive (which of course is great) makes me more tired, which then made it harder to keep a constant movement going.

Here's 2 days ago with 26 SPM: https://log.concept2.com/profile/932893/log/42589524
Today where I dropped as low as 19 SPM: https://log.concept2.com/profile/932893/log/42632913

Managed to keep roughly the same pace/watts, but yeah, it was quite a lot more jerky and not smooth, hehe. More practice to do!

[Minimoof123]

I also try the mud challenge 25 X 10 k (I have done these before) I'm also not a professional,rower, I agree with all the other comments and I think it does need more strength to row at the lower rates, my usual stroke is circa 30, and drag is often circa 100 and just this week tried rating nearer to 40 with drag 120 - 130 to get near to PB, also I have recently tried lowering, there is an element of psychological effect here I'm sure, when I rate lower my times are slower, so I'm sure that is strength related, bearing in mind I do no other type of training to try to improve that, rowing for me is purely an exercise, interestingly March is a good month for me with PB,s although not so much this year, but does indicate the more you do the better you will be, I like to think my recorded times are reasonable, if you are happy with that rate then carry on, is that your rate for other distances? Or even try higher rate, it's all about finding your happy spot....

[jamesg]

Tried slowing down today, and slowed down a lot, and it really was jerky, haha. But yeah, quite a challenge this

Try pulling in any boat, even a slow dinghy on a city lake. Do you rush to the next stroke, even if the boat is still going after the last one? Wasn't that last stroke hard enough for you, that you have to take another one immediately? That would certainly feel rushed and jerky.

Just relax, nothing special has to happen during the recovery. All you need do is make sure you ge to a strong posture, ready to take the next one, when it at last becomes unavoidable.

If you get the chance, watch the swans flying; they're in no hurry, but stay in the air all the same.