Concept2 Forum

I’m 5’10 195lbs. I see these people pull way better times at 25-30s/min. What do you think I’m doing wrong for my strokes to be that high?

FYI I do this for fun and know that’s not great 5k time. I am looking to get better though.

Here's a guess
1. You're not using your legs
2. You've got the damper lever on 10
3. You're rating too high
4. You've not studied any YT videos to help learn to row with style and aplomb

At 40 strokes you're not maximising your power in each stroke so you're wasting energy going backwards and forwards without putting enough energy into the rower.

Think of it as jumping horizontally away from the rower and make each stroke as long and as powerful as you can.

Watch some technique videos and you'll see that there are clearly defined stages in rowing. First push with the legs and then once you're circa halfway you then pull with the arms and lean back to utilise your back. At the moment you're probably not getting full power in the catch as you're not getting close enough (possibly leaning forward too much?) and you're clipping your drive too much as you're in a rush to get back for the next stroke.

It is an easy trap to fall into thinking that you need to be moving faster, but in reality each stroke needs to be strong and directed otherwise it will weaken the effect and you will tire easily without really getting anywhere.

You also definitely need to check your drag factor / damper setting as if this is on maximum it will be far too heavy a load for you to maximise your chances. A drag factor of circa 115-130 is far more efficient, assuming you're male and not female?

Good luck and don't underestimate how important proper technique is in getting better

What do you think I’m doing wrong for my strokes to be that high?

The usual problem is the recovery sequence and consequently the posture at the catch. However you are over 200Watt for 5k, so certainly fit.

To see the best catch posture, take a hard fast stroke from a dead stop. You'll probably start from what you think is half slide, but which since it keeps the knee angle open is in fact the strongest possible. Try to mimic that position in every stroke thereafter, by switching the recovery from all at once to first hands away, then swing forward, then slide, all with a straight back.

Think as if on water: you would not be able to lift the knees first and then the handle over them, without going for a swim.

cbauga wrote: ↑

December 10th, 2019, 9:56 pm

I’m 5’10 195lbs. I see these people pull way better times at 25-30s/min. What do you think I’m doing wrong for my strokes to be that high?

FYI I do this for fun and know that’s not great 5k time. I am looking to get better though.

Welcome.

It looks like you'll be able to take heaps off that time as soon as your technique starts improving. You must be pretty fit already to pull that time at 40spm.

I look forward to seeing a lot of PBs over the next few months!

Welcome.

That's an impressive time! I can't imagine sustaining 40 spm for 20 minutes. I only manage 22 spm for that 5k time.

As others have said, you are pulling with weak strokes and making up for it with frequency. Take a few steps back and learn how to create a more powerful stroke each time. Learning good technique now will serve you well.

This raises the question, what do most people regard as their optimum stroke rate when attempting a PB in the 5K?

I would probably aim for 25/26 for the first half and 27/28 for the second half, but I'm a 48 y.o. lightweight with good cardio endurance and less power (about 7.5 watts/stroke), so I'm guessing that I tend to pull a little faster than the average?

I would always rate 28-30 for any PB attempt under HM but it's subjective as I know Keith has set some great PBs at low rates. I only use low rates to build power in my stroke or for general long distance training but it's important to master both ends of the stroke rate range.

Basically it's whatever works for you to achieve your best result should be used. That might be r18 or r40.

Here is one take on 5K:

Dec 11: 5,000m 18:39.4 @1:51.9 DF/SPM 152/30 W/s: 249/30 = 8.3

Not a PB attempt, but a brisk row for me for where I am.

The rating should be relative to the pace. Nothing necessarily wrong with 40spm if you were going at a much faster pace.

From memory my 5K PB was 17:49.0 at 26spm.

Cyclingman1 wrote: ↑

December 11th, 2019, 6:27 pm

W/s: 249/30 = 8.3

Your Watts per stroke calculation is totally wrong. You need ErgData to calculate it more closely using your drive time and even then its an average power.

Do the math and your doing more like 500W a stroke with a 1sec drive time not 8.3W. Watts is per second, not per minute. The shorter the drive time to higher the power compressed into this time.

20spm at 2:00 pace is the best example. This is 200W average and to keep the math simple,say 1 sec drive and 2 sec recovery means that on the drive you need to average 600W, hence you can instantly see how dropping the rating to 20spm or below hurts like hell.

Great 5K time however.

Power is Work/Time, ie the rate of doing Work.

200 Watts at rating 20 means the Work in the stroke is 10 Watt-minutes, not 10 Watts. This is useful because the ISO unit of Work (the Joule) is equal both to 1 Watt-second and to 1 Newton-meter.

Peak Power. During the stroke, peak power can be 4-5 times higher than the average we see on screen, given the short pull time and the shape of the force curve. To estimate peak power directly, we would need peak handle force and peak speed of pull, since Power = Force x Speed.

patrickschmidt wrote: ↑

December 11th, 2019, 11:55 am

This raises the question, what do most people regard as their optimum stroke rate when attempting a PB in the 5K?

I would probably aim for 25/26 for the first half and 27/28 for the second half, but I'm a 48 y.o. lightweight with good cardio endurance and less power (about 7.5 watts/stroke), so I'm guessing that I tend to pull a little faster than the average?

Those rates are well below average for a 5k not higher..and a long way from optimum for a Lwt of any age.

I'd suggest looking at getting over 30 and you'll see a big improvement.

My best 5k last season was 19:59.4 at 35 spm for 4k then up to 36 for the last one (DF was the 115 I use for everything... I'm also a Lwt...73.5 kilos this morning.. 14 years older than you..)......I think that's probably a bit higher than average!

This raises the question, what do most people regard as their optimum stroke rate when attempting a PB in the 5K?

Optimum stroke rate is the one that gives the most comfortable rhythm, so depends on your height and technique. In any case, 5k is training so it's done possibly with the same rhythm and rating as last time but a better stroke, since that's what has to be trained. Endurance comes anyway. In this case they are all PBs.

In long races afloat (usually heads) I started slowish (27-28) so that my crew could pull an effective stroke comfortably, then wound it up in the last mile or so. Blowup must be avoided.

Nowadays national level crews do the whole course at 35 or more, but they don't have the inertial problems of the erg and their blades are much lighter.

Carl Watts wrote: ↑

December 11th, 2019, 10:28 pm

Cyclingman1 wrote: ↑December 11th, 2019, 6:27 pm
W/s: 249/30 = 8.3

Your Watts per stroke calculation is totally wrong. You need ErgData to calculate it more closely using your drive time and even then its an average power.

I'm not claiming any scientifically correct usage of Wattage and SPM. I've found that W/SPM is a useful parameter for me. It captures the tradeoff between how hard one can pull vs. frequency.