Concept2 Forum

Hi all first post

I've had my c2 for some 15 years and what a great machine it remains

I've gone through peaks and troughs of activity since I stopped club rowing (again circa 15 yrs ago), interspersed with running and resistance training

My staple workout on the erg has been intervals, 1:30 on 1:30 off, * 8

Recently I've looked back at my times, from day 1 of this routine, in search of an explanation to why I can't get close the overall distance I used to attain. A notable drop in the last couple years vs the prior decade or so.

Is it my technique. Diet. My new trainers. That I moved house and changed the position of my erg. That I gave the flywheel a good clean for the first time in years.Of course of course.. age is the most probable factor, but I'm hoping there is something else. Shame I never tracked the drag factor.

I will keep plugging away and see if I can reverse or at slow the rate of decline.

I have a nice graph to illustrate things if I can work out how to post it. Edit: "sorry the board attachment quota has been reached"

adccl8z wrote: ↑

October 19th, 2019, 5:25 pm

Hi all first post

I've had my c2 for some 15 years and what a great machine it remains

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I will keep plugging away and see if I can reverse or at slow the rate of decline.

I have a nice graph to illustrate things if I can work out how to post it. Edit: "sorry the board attachment quota has been reached"

Welcome,

It's difficult to judge without knowing how old you are now and how long you've been back on the erg.
If you're 33 now, it's probably not age-related.

yes I was wondering about current age too as that changes things a lot.
There is no doubt that there is age related decline - it varies with current age, individual variation, length/intensity of training and whether lwt and hwt. The decline is also different for various distances - slower with longer cardio pieces than the power short ones.
The work has been done by Sander Roosendaal and Greg Smith:

https://analytics.rowsandall.com/2018/0 ... -duration/
https://quantifiedrowing.com/

Definite slowdown since hitting 50 years old here. Its a combination of things because it gets harder to continue the intensity of the training and even then it would be a gradual decline at this stage and from curves I have seen the decline continues at a constant rate until about the age of about 75 where it falls off a cliff. You certainly could halt the decline and step back in age by like 10 years by doing things you have never done before like start taking PED's and I suspect the usage of these is pretty high in those who are competitive and in denial about their declining performance and are not prepared to accept it. Some of the results you can find on the Erg fall way outside the normal distribution curves.

max_ratcliffe wrote: ↑

October 19th, 2019, 8:19 pm

It's difficult to judge without knowing how old you are now and how long you've been back on the erg.
If you're 33 now, it's probably not age-related.

Hahahaha

Welcome to the forum. Are you also building your base fitness with long steady rows, or are you just doing short intervals? Decline due to age is definitely an issue, except a lucky few, we will all have to face in years to come.

Your mindset might be holding you back as well if you try and recreate past glories: you don't achieve what you used to be able to, so you subconsciously feel defeated and you reinforce your feelings of decline.

Maybe try doing some sessions you've never done, or have rarely done, so expectations don't play a part and you set new PBs and goals?

Carl Watts wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2019, 12:32 am

Definite slowdown since hitting 50 years old here. Its a combination of things because it gets harder to continue the intensity of the training and even then it would be a gradual decline at this stage and from curves I have seen the decline continues at a constant rate until about the age of about 75 where it falls off a cliff. You certainly could halt the decline and step back in age by like 10 years by doing things you have never done before like start taking PED's and I suspect the usage of these is pretty high in those who are competitive and in denial about their declining performance and are not prepared to accept it. Some of the results you can find on the Erg fall way outside the normal distribution curves.

Sorry Carl but I just can't believe you said this! To suggest widespread use of PEDs as we age without a shred of evidence is pretty amazing. As one of the competitive ones who you seek to malign (maybe 100+ races over ten years all around the world) I would have to say that I have only ever seen one competitor in that time who was clearly suspicious/likely user. I can assure you there is no denial about declining performances just a desire to do as well as we can for as long as we can.
I think that some outliers are those logging from non C2 machines (misunderstanding) and some are just because they train harder and are good at it. In a sport like ours where there is nothing to be gained by cheating I reckon drug use is a very rare phenomenon particularly in the 50+ group.
IMO age related decline is both a natural physical thing due to expected muscle mass loss and a reflection of a deliberate cut back in training intensity.

lindsayh wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2019, 2:03 am

Carl Watts wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2019, 12:32 am

Definite slowdown since hitting 50 years old here. Its a combination of things because it gets harder to continue the intensity of the training and even then it would be a gradual decline at this stage and from curves I have seen the decline continues at a constant rate until about the age of about 75 where it falls off a cliff. You certainly could halt the decline and step back in age by like 10 years by doing things you have never done before like start taking PED's and I suspect the usage of these is pretty high in those who are competitive and in denial about their declining performance and are not prepared to accept it. Some of the results you can find on the Erg fall way outside the normal distribution curves.

Sorry Carl but I just can't believe you said this! To suggest widespread use of PEDs as we age without a shred of evidence is pretty amazing. As one of the competitive ones who you malign (maybe 100+ races over ten years all around the world) I would have to say that I have only ever seen one competitor in that time who was clearly suspicious/likely user. I think that some outliers are those logging from non C2 machines (misunderstanding) and some are just because they train harder and are good at it. In a sport like ours where there is nothing to be gained by cheating I reckon drug use is a very rare phenomenon particularly in the 50+ group.
IMO age related decline is both a natural physical thing due to expected muscle mass loss and a reflection of a deliberate cut back in training intensity.

I'm with you on this Lindsay. Outliers always attract negative attention as it doesn't fit with our expectations, but there always has been, and there always will be, those people who defy the norms and manage to avoid the decline.

I might be totally wrong but I'm not sure that PEDs have much of a role to play in rowing. I see some big strong fellas on the rower but quite often they haven't got the fitness to produce a good 2k result, although I guess it's different for PEDs and a 500m session.

Dangerscouse wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2019, 2:29 am

I'm with you on this Lindsay. Outliers always attract negative attention as it doesn't fit with our expectations, but there always has been, and there always will be, those people who defy the norms and manage to avoid the decline.
I might be totally wrong but I'm not sure that PEDs have much of a role to play in rowing. I see some big strong fellas on the rower but quite often they haven't got the fitness to produce a good 2k result, although I guess it's different for PEDs and a 500m session.

Yes Stu it is the link with power sports and body building for the 500m that is more likely but even then it is probably just the "fast twitchers" discovering the erg and the increased opportunity to race.
Its more about delaying by hard training rather that avoiding the decline! I can assure you that it is coming to get us all!
I've tried to make the hard sessions harder rather then backing off - its still got me though.

Thanks for the comments folks. I'm 52.

See if you can access this graph

https://www.flickr.com/photos/185090135 ... ed-public/

lindsayh wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2019, 2:51 am

I've tried to make the hard sessions harder rather then backing off - its still got me though.

I can assure you Lindsay, there are many many rowers (me included) who will be very happy to be getting your results when they are 58 nevermind 68!

adccl8z wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2019, 2:57 am

Thanks for the comments folks. I'm 52.

See if you can access this graph

https://www.flickr.com/photos/185090135 ... ed-public/

Nomatter what, after 50 everybody starts going to slow, how much depends on lots of things. For me, same age, recovery is the weak link. The mind still can, but the body not anymore.
Try to manage that.

Re peds, have no experience with those, but in the fitness/bb scene those are widespread. You certainly can,t say if someone is a user. Sometimes its obvious, sometimes you really would not know. Difficult subject.

Dangerscouse wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2019, 3:56 am

lindsayh wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2019, 2:51 am

I've tried to make the hard sessions harder rather then backing off - its still got me though.

I can assure you Lindsay, there are many many rowers (me included) who will be very happy to be getting your results when they are 58 nevermind 68!

+1
What a difference there is between people like Lindsay who I assume has been a lifelong advcocate of training hard and the general masses. I remember seeing a video of the Kona Ironman age group winners on their podiums....as they went up through the age groups it culminated with 80+!! The guy who won still looked fit and strong crucially and full of life. A million miles away from 99.99% of the general population. Is he blessed? Probably, but a lifelong awareness and buying into health+fitness will show ever more as we age...in your early 20s the body is so forgiving, but then it's lifestyle that takes over.

Thanks Stu/Paul - the numbers are good I guess but I can name some guys ahead of me and I wouldn't think of PEDs to get closer to them! I am not even sure what benefits there are for 2km performance - I understand the sprinting might be helped.
Henry is right of course it is impossible to tell by looking and it is a difficult area but I would be amazed if it is a problem in 50+ erging even though we are all slowing down as the graphs document. For those of us who started later in life we don't have a long history to compare - my decline started at about 63y

lindsayh wrote: ↑

October 20th, 2019, 5:38 am

Thanks Stu/Paul - the numbers are good I guess but I can name some guys ahead of me and I wouldn't think of PEDs to get closer to them! I am not even sure what benefits there are for 2km performance - I understand the sprinting might be helped.
Henry is right of course it is impossible to tell by looking and it is a difficult area but I would be amazed if it is a problem in 50+ erging even though we are all slowing down as the graphs document. For those of us who started later in life we don't have a long history to compare - my decline started at about 63y

Atm, there is a problem in skierging. 100% users are setting records. Raw strenght on the skierg is more important than on the rower.
Don,t think that ped use is age related, even would think that younger people use more. In the fitness would, once you crossed the line, you “can,t” go back. It really, depending on what and how, can help a lot.

In the older cath, TRT, testosteron/ Gh replacement could be an issue. Those are often prescribed and users don,t see it as PED which is ofcourse bull.

Again, tricky subject, bit like drug use, which is widespread these days, talking pills, cocaine etc among the younger generations.

I’m 57, and feel like the decrease in performance has accelerated through my 50’s. My results are contaminated by about 3 years devoid of exercise in my early 50’s. Do any people see improvement in their late 50’s. I see some of the amazing times by others on this forum, and it makes me think there is lots of room for me to improve. Or are all the excellent times by older people reflective of even stronger times in the past now in process of decline?

Dave