Concept2 Forum

Hi all,
I'm sure there is something incorrect with my technique, but I can’t stop thinking there is a machine problem:
Starting with the second drive onward I’m getting minimal tension on the chain until the point in the stroke where I hip swing. If I just leg drive 2-3 times after a full stroke I will also feel very minimal tension. I have tried slowing down my recovery, staying in the catch a moment longer and starting the drive much stronger- all have led to minimal improvement. I keep reading that the drive should be %60 legs and it’s not happening. Technique problem? Erg problem? Recommendations?

Thanks!!

Row2Run wrote: ↑

July 30th, 2019, 2:26 pm

Hi all,
I'm sure there is something incorrect with my technique, but I can’t stop thinking there is a machine problem:
Starting with the second drive onward I’m getting minimal tension on the chain until the point in the stroke where I hip swing. If I just leg drive 2-3 times after a full stroke I will also feel very minimal tension. I have tried slowing down my recovery, staying in the catch a moment longer and starting the drive much stronger- all have led to minimal improvement. I keep reading that the drive should be %60 legs and it’s not happening. Technique problem? Erg problem? Recommendations?

Thanks!!

What speed do you row at? Pace per 500m

Almost certainly you drive to slow, the fan has speed, everybody has some lag, but faster rowers less.
A test could be to set the drag high, setting at 10, fanspeed will be low and lag at a minimum. That not a good setting to use, but it will test the machine.

Re drive, it should be like a standing jump, where you come free from the, test that also. Do you push like you do when you jump.

Errr hang on let me go get my crystal ball

Posting a side on view video of you rowing will give a better idea for us to understand whats going wrong. There seems be a plethora of newbies lately complaining about their ergs... when it's most likely technique related than machine related.

No way has C2 went this far downhill in such a short space of time.

Might be sliding your butt rather than driving your whole body back with the legs. If you are butt sliding you'll experience no resistance until you start your upper body "swing".

@Anth_F
Here's a link to a quick side view I just did when I got home from work. If you skip ahead to around 1:03 I do just a leg drive, absolutely no chain tension.
https://youtu.be/b_jndBEa4L8

@hjs
I am pretty slow- average about 2:30/500M stroke rate is about 23/SPM

Thank all for your help and feedback!!!

Row2Run wrote: ↑

July 30th, 2019, 6:07 pm

@Anth_F
Here's a link to a quick side view I just did when I got home from work. If you skip ahead to around 1:03 I do just a leg drive, absolutely no chain tension.
https://youtu.be/b_jndBEa4L8

@hjs
I am pretty slow- average about 2:30/500M stroke rate is about 23/SPM

Thank all for your help and feedback!!!

Nothing wrong with the rower. The machine sounded as it should when you were taking full strokes. The leg drive only was just to slow/weak to catch up with the already spinning flywheel.

Your stroke does need some work but for a complete "newbie" it's not that bad. I've seen worse and far worse. Other here can tell you more about what you need to work on.

Yeah agree with above. Can hear rower working as it should but the stroke is weak and erratic so not engaging with the flywheel properly

I would spend sometime working on technique learning to really drive with the legs first and getting some power into your stroke.

Row2Run wrote: ↑

July 30th, 2019, 6:07 pm

I am pretty slow- average about 2:30/500M stroke rate is about 23/SPM

That's not fast, but it isn't horribly slow. When I check the memory on the PM of the Model E I use at the gym there are plenty of paces around 3:30 / 500m with stroke rates around 35 spm. Those folks are probably using more energy moving up and down the slide than they are putting work into flywheel.

Just push hard with your legs, maintain good technique, and you'll improve over time.

As others have said above, things look decent for you, so keep at it.

Starting with the second drive onward I’m getting minimal tension on the chain

The erg has a serious problem: we have to know how to use it. It does not obey orders, but only the laws of physics, in this case applied to spinning a flywheel. So we must too.

To see how the dynamics of a flywheel works, try the backstop drill: first arms only at rating 60+; then add some swing after arms away, at rating 35-40; then add some slide, after the swing, dropping to rate 20. You'll see your power increasing from about 40W (arms only) to about 200W.

This drill can be used every day, also serving as a warm-up. Among other aspects, it avoids us having to lift the handle over our knees, which is the most obvious sign of incompetent rowing. See the C2 technique videos and the attached prose.

Factors which impede rowing are high drag and high feet.

The Watt is a measure of power, so is what we watch if we want to see what we are doing.

Row2Run wrote: ↑

July 30th, 2019, 6:07 pm

@Anth_F
Here's a link to a quick side view I just did when I got home from work. If you skip ahead to around 1:03 I do just a leg drive, absolutely no chain tension.
https://youtu.be/b_jndBEa4L8

@hjs
I am pretty slow- average about 2:30/500M stroke rate is about 23/SPM

Thank all for your help and feedback!!!

Cheers, nothing wrong with the rower. Those are build as rocks anyway, seldom a problem. The only thing is dust in the flywheel after a while thats needs cleaning. Remember that!

The machine itself does nothing, its us the user that does the work. You need time and meters, you rowing does not look bad, but it does show you are a beginner. Its not very smooth yet, which will come once your body adepts to the motion.

Try to build a long smooth stroke. Set the feet low enough, so you have room to reach forward.
From a strong firm startingpoint, push the legs, hang on the handle, halfway ish, start pulling the back, last pull in the arms. You end up leaning back a bit.
Think for your back, start 11 oclock, ending at 13 oclock.
Recovery should not be rushed, do that calm.

Saw your hands, they should be leading during the recovery, you let them come to late. Watch that.

But in general, everything is ok, except you the rower, you need time and meters. Expect early gains, which is nice, later on, improvement will slow down ofcourse.

Enjoy!

Row2Run wrote: ↑

July 30th, 2019, 2:26 pm

Hi all,
I'm sure there is something incorrect with my technique, but I can’t stop thinking there is a machine problem:
Starting with the second drive onward I’m getting minimal tension on the chain until the point in the stroke where I hip swing. If I just leg drive 2-3 times after a full stroke I will also feel very minimal tension. I have tried slowing down my recovery, staying in the catch a moment longer and starting the drive much stronger- all have led to minimal improvement. I keep reading that the drive should be %60 legs and it’s not happening. Technique problem? Erg problem? Recommendations?

Thanks!!

Difficult for me to know but all I will say is that I am away for work a lot - and now on holiday - and I use ergs in gyms all over the place, including different countries and gym ergs are in general terribly maintained or not maintained at all. I row on my own at home so notice the difference and the one I'm on this week on holiday feels a bit like you describe - short lag just after the catch until it picks up.

BUT... before anything if I were you I would check drag factor at different damper settings because it may be a very dusty machine and if it had a drag factor of say 80 at damper 4 (I've seen this on gym ergs) you may end up with something like you describe.

Sounds odd though. If it were me I'd do a number of tests at different drag factors, different rates and all that just to check. Then I'd try to find another erg to see if it behaves the same way. Process of elimination perhaps best here. If it's your own machine with not much use I'd be very surprised if it was the machine.

Anyway, good luck.

Difficult for me to know but all I will say is that I am away for work a lot - and now on holiday - and I use ergs in gyms all over the place, including different countries and gym ergs are in general terribly maintained or not maintained at all. I row on my own at home so notice the difference and the one I'm on this week on holiday feels a bit like you describe - short lag just after the catch until it picks up.

BUT... before anything if I were you I would check drag factor at different damper settings because it may be a very dusty machine and if it had a drag factor of say 80 at damper 4 (I've seen this on gym ergs) you may end up with something like you describe.

Sounds odd though. If it were me I'd do a number of tests at different drag factors, different rates and all that just to check. Then I'd try to find another erg to see if it behaves the same way. Process of elimination perhaps best here. If it's your own machine with not much use I'd be very surprised if it was the machine.

Anyway, good luck.

Trying other machines was a good idea. I bought a day pass at a gym that had three Ergs. They were perfomed the same as mine- same lag. So now it's clear the issue is my rowing technique.