Concept2 Forum

I have randomly decided I'd like to work towards rowing a sub 7 minute 2k - a goal I read somewhere as being a good benchmark for fitness. I've never rowed before, not a big guy etc.

I have rowed a number of times over the past month. Did my fourth 2k attempt last night and haven't improved since last time - 8:05 - though I think I put a bit less effort in as I wasn't seeing mist in front of my eyes this time!.

My big concern was wondering how will I go faster since I was on Damper 10 and doing 30-35 SPM - so not that much room to increase SPM as I already feel like I'm going like the clappers when I hit 38 SPM and that technique is failing.

One concern was whether I would ever get to 7 minutes since I'm not 6'4 (longer stroke)? I'm 5'10".

So, I'm here today as I decided I needed to learn about technique, training plans etc - and also how this all works and whether I'm shooting for something impossible.

Anyway:
The big thing that jumps out is that I should have the damper much much lower - I have had it on 10. (I told you I don't know what I'm doing!)

What I'm taking in is that my goal should be possible (is that right?) - it is just that I'm doing it all wrong by being on damper 10.

I fully plan to put it on (say) 4 next time.

Will I do my next row and see my time go down a lot just by moving to a lower setting - given what I have done on 10?
Is a 7 min 2k totally doable for a 5'10" skinny guy - if I put the effort in and train, of course

Many thanks for any pointers/reassurance!

#1 most important thing is to learn about "drag factor" rather than physical damper lever position.

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... etting-101

It is certainly doable. If you check out the concept2 rankings, you'll find almost 300 lightweight (under 75kg) men managed to get under 7min for 2k this season (since 1st of May 2018). Quite a few of them are over 50 years old, so you don't have to be young, just work hard.

Once you learn and develop a decent technique, You need to then start doing some endurance training to build up your aerobic base fitness. Think 30-40 min Steady State sessions at lower 20's SPM's, to build a stronger stroke. With your current technique, and SPM, you are wasting valuable energy etc. (Steady State) means you row at a comfortable pace, where you would still be able to maintain a conversation whilst you're rowing

You could also include doing some interval training, 8x500m, 4x1k etc... these will help also.

The bottom line... your body will need to be able to produce an average of 302.3 watts of power for a full 7 minutes. A formidable task, yet doable... but if you are starting from scratch it will take some time to build up to this.

Whippet wrote: ↑

February 26th, 2019, 8:49 am

(I told you I don't know what I'm doing!)

This quote sums up your post!

Sub 7 minute 2k is a lofty goal, but I don't think you realize just how far away that goal is for you at this point.

Take a step back and learn how to row properly with a strong, effective stroke. Many videos to watch. Lower your drag factor and work on your aerobic base with long steady rows. Consider following a standardized plan like the beginner Pete Plan. These should be your first goals.

Your next goal might be a sub 8 minute 2k.

Dropping from a circa 8 min 2k to Sub 7 mins will take quite a lot of time and lots of pain and sweat.

How active are you generally, and do you do any other sports regularly? Bear in mind that you will, to some extent, be limited by your genetics and VO2 max. That is not to say that you won't reach your goal, but your progress will either be faster or slower as a result.

As you are new to rowing you will newbie gains, but they will tail off and then it's a slower grind towards progress. Stay patient and make small improvements, there are no short cuts to lots and lots of metres on the rower.

Best of luck and don't get downhearted when your head is telling you to give up.

Read around the forum, that will get you started. If you can pull sub7 depends mostly on how fit you now are. The worse it now is the better.

Re damper, search for dragfactor.

A rower with a good stroke can not row at 10, way to much resistance, he would go way to fast to keep that up for long. High drag is only suited for sprinting. There are exceptions, but rowing like this gives a very lumpy slow stroke. Does not translate at all to rowing in a boat.

At this point, learning to row should be your number 1 goal, that means building a strong, solid stroke, at drag 110/130. At lower ratings. 18/22 spm. For longer rows. 30 min or more.

I'm 5' 10" and 54 years old. I was an athlete (somewhat) in high school and some in college. Long story but blew out an ACL in college and that ended my sports. Worked hard physically for years but smoked for 10. Then got a desk job and got really fat. Then blew out the knee the rest of the way (coaching BB-Ball). Really got fatter!

I stopped smoking around 33, started working out again after blowing out my knee completely at 42. Took up stationary bike, then Spinning then jogging and then trail running. Chronic Runner's knee (on my good one) brought me to rowing. I think my first 2K was around 7:50 or so. That was after years of working out OK but not really hard cardio efforts. I thought was hitting cardio hard but I really wasn't.

Early in 2018 (after four years of rowing), I got down to a 7:11.7, my PB. I'm injured currently, mid back problem, but I'm still training hard. I've not given up hope that I'll someday break 7 minutes. You know, time is not my friend.

With that said, the rowing community is amazing. I'm missing being able to compete against my rowing friends or sharing training workouts now more than the "quest" for seven minutes. Some folks that are near or are the best in the world have mentored me, though I'll never be much more than slightly good. I guess what I'm saying is enjoy the journey and make it fun. It really can be even if you never hit seven minutes. Just work as hard as you can and work as smart as you can and pay attention to those that know more than you and you'll have a great time and avoid unnecessary injury.

Great post, Mike.

While it's nice to have a goal, the reality for most of us is that the training is the "journey" and should be enjoyed in it's own right. It would be unfortunate if someone had an unrealistic goal and gave up training because of slow gains in that direction.

That was my point about the OP first targeting a sub 8 minute 2k. Certainly attainable with a bit of training and may even be a motivating target. 7:40 after that will be even more work.

mdpfirrman wrote: ↑

February 26th, 2019, 2:45 pm

With that said, the rowing community is amazing. I'm missing being able to compete against my rowing friends or sharing training workouts now more than the "quest" for seven minutes. Some folks that are near or are the best in the world have mentored me, though I'll never be much more than slightly good. I guess what I'm saying is enjoy the journey and make it fun. It really can be even if you never hit seven minutes. Just work as hard as you can and work as smart as you can and pay attention to those that know more than you and you'll have a great time and avoid unnecessary injury.

Great comments as usual Mike. The grind is all too often viewed with fear and loathing as it's the means to the end, but it really does need to be embraced and harnessed. We spend too much time on the damn machine to not enjoy it as well.

Whippet wrote: ↑

February 26th, 2019, 8:49 am

My big concern was wondering how will I go faster since I was on Damper 10 and doing 30-35 SPM - so not that much room to increase SPM as I already feel like I'm going like the clappers when I hit 38 SPM and that technique is failing.

From your numbers, it seems that you make a slow, soft pull, and then you move very fast back to the initial catch position.

This technique gives you a lot of meters on the handle, but it doesn't give many meters to your "boat".

I wonder if this is caused by a misunderstanding of how the ergometer works. A question for you:
Do you think that boat pace is all about how many meters you move the handle in a given time?

I can tell you that it is not. The ergometer measures how much power you put into the handle. This power is directly converted into an artificial pace which is shown in the display. In other words, you need power if you want pace.

How to get power? Power is the same as velocity multiplied by force. So you need both velocity and force when you pull.

Consequently, you need to reverse your current technique:
Make a fast, forceful pull, and then move slowly back to the initial position. This will give you pace.

Thank you everyone for your replies, help and guidance. It is very helpful. I have learned a lot today.

Allan - You are right about what I am doing. The stroke probably lacks power as on setting 10 and I hurry the catch as I want to be pulling again. Basically, I have just been yanking it as fast as I can!

You are right that I didn't understand how ergos work, until doing some reading today. I now see I should set it lower, really rip it fast then don't hurry the catch. As you say, the opposite to what I was doing. I think I was thinking about it as pulling a length of rope in. I understand a bit better now - having been encouraged to think about pulling on an actual oar in water.

I'm looking forward to giving it another go and seeing what Beginner Gains I get from it.

I understand 7 mins is a challenge - but that's why it's a time worth having. I'm encouraged now as I can see where my 1 min might come from (using proper technique) and I saw a little guy on Youtube (Ed Baker) put in a sub 7 minute row.

Thanks again. Looking forward to the challenge!

If you haven't already run the numbers, there's a dramatic difference between the power required to do a 2:00 pace on the erg compared to 1:45 (i.e. 8 min 2k vs a 7 min 2k) because the power's proportional to the pace cubed. (actually, stated this way, 1 / the pace cubed)

2:00 is 203 watts, and 1:45 is 302 watts, or an increase by a factor of x ~1.5 That's a huge difference.

That and the fact that your body just isn't used to really hard rowing (yet) are the main reasons it's going to take a lot of time and effort to get down to a 7 min 2k.

BTW, I don't think an 8 minute 2k is a shabby accomplishment. Let's say you grabbed 100 guys off the street that were your age +/- a few years. Given about an hour's worth of training to learn how to row (which is way more than they'd really need) how many of them do you think would right off the bat be able to do a 2:00 avg pace 2k? I bet less than 2-5%.

Good Luck in your quest.

One concern was whether I would ever get to 7 minutes since I'm not 6'4 (longer stroke)? I'm 5'10

To do that you need speed and endurance. Speed comes from technique, endurance (=fit) from lots of work.

What you're doing now (8.05' 2k at 38, and 190W/38 = ratio 5) means you have little technique, but such work can in any case start to get you fit. Just lengthen it gradually to 30 minutes or 5-6k a day, at lower ratings.

Getting fit is a cell proliferation function so will increase %-wise, say 1% a day. One reads that work should increase no more than 1-2% per week.

While doing that, work on your style. The standard rowing style as shown by C2 technique video makes the legs (thighs and hips) do most of the work. The muscle there is large and strong already, so has no problem in overloading your CV system, which is what increases fitness. The large discrepancy between leg strength and overall fitness is easily seen: climb some stairs or do a step test, on and off the first step.

At height 5'10 and a nominal weight 75-80 kg, good technique will let you train at about 160 Watt, rating 20-22. The low rating is important for several reasons: it gives you the time to pull a long stroke without excessive force (Force x Length = Work, and Work/Time = Power); leaves you plenty of room when you want to up the rating; allows a long rest between strokes, so that training can continue.