:30/:30 intervals beneficial?

[IdahoMike]

I started doing BPP in February and was making ok progres but then I hit a tree snowboarding and fractured both wrists and bruised my ribs. Today was my first day back after a while off and I tried the 30/30 interval session. I was able to get a much stronger power output, consistently even after 30+ intervals, whereas before when I was on BPP, I would start to gas, form would suffer, got into fly and die mode just to reach my goal time, stroke rates were not consistent, etc.

Will the 30/30 be beneficial for building a baseline and learning consistency while building better physical fitness and developing power before going back into BPP? Or would I be better off just restarting BPP but focusing more on technique instead of breaking PR’s every time?

[jamesg]

It all depends on technique; how much is your stroke worth in relation to your height and weight?

[bob01]

I reckon one could build a decent program around the 30s.
Various reps say 6 to 10 max efforts... 30 hard..(does pm stop counting at 30?)... though to say 100.!!
As said one problem is technique... and I feel here the pp L4 is great. Use the force graph on monitor... and force parameters on ergdata
Add some steady work.L4. longish warm up.. cool down Job done and not so mind numbing

[MPx]

I'm a fan of intervals generally, but be careful with very short, very repetitive. All those fast starts need a good technique or you'll just mess up your back. Check out one of Nav's training threads - like (In)decent intervals - if you want to follow a master at the craft.

[Gammmmo]

Microintervals? Personally I think there's no such thing as a "free lunch" when it comes to training. Might be beneficial if it helps you erg more but in general (fun session to do IMO) I'd say bear in mind one of the basic tenets of training: SPECIFICITY.

[kini62]

Just did this workout on Tuesday. 10 reps on the Skierg. I did a 6K on the erg prior, took a short rest and had at it. It was brutal. Rep 10 was it, no way I could've gone longer without a significant slowdown.

HIIT has its place, but it's not something you could or should do all the time.

[bob01]

I agree. Training is specific. HIIT does have its place But 30/100 30 ent HIIT.

[JerekKruger]

I think this article has it right. A workout like 30/30 is speed work, and speed work will improve performance. However it's not, in of itself, a magic bullet. It needs to be incorporated into a wider plan.

I don't agree with the specificity argument however. No one trains for a 2k by doing 2ks. Instead they train the various every systems involved in a 2k and then, near the race, tying it all together with more specific work. Long low rate rows, which form the bulk of 2k training, are not specific to a 2k, however they train the aerobic energy system which carries over. Similarly short hard intervals are not specific to a 2k either, but they train the anaerobic energy system which, again, carries over.

[Gammmmo]

I think this article has it right. A workout like 30/30 is speed work, and speed work will improve performance. However it's not, in of itself, a magic bullet. It needs to be incorporated into a wider plan.

I don't agree with the specificity argument however. No one trains for a 2k by doing 2ks. Instead they train the various every systems involved in a 2k and then, near the race, tying it all together with more specific work. Long low rate rows, which form the bulk of 2k training, are not specific to a 2k, however they train the aerobic energy system which carries over. Similarly short hard intervals are not specific to a 2k either, but they train the anaerobic energy system which, again, carries over.

semantics - the point is there are better ways to train for say a 2K than doing microintervals. They would however be quite good for 30s PBs

[hjs]

semantics - the point is there are better ways to train for say a 2K than doing microintervals. They would however be quite good for 30s PBs

Nah.. To be good at those you simply should be super strong. Monster squats, deadlifts, rows make a sprint erger, not erging.

[Gammmmo]

semantics - the point is there are better ways to train for say a 2K than doing microintervals. They would however be quite good for 30s PBs

Nah.. To be good at those you simply should be super strong. Monster squats, deadlifts, rows make a sprint erger, not erging.

was trying to make a point re: specificity

[JerekKruger]

semantics - the point is there are better ways to train for say a 2K than doing microintervals.

Agreed on both points

That said the semantics are important. Specificity is often held up as an important training principle, which it is, but it's only one factor. The Bulgarian weightlifting team took specificity to the extreme: training for the snatch and clean and jerk by doing only five exercises (the snatch, the clean and jerk, the power snatch, the power clean and the front squat) and working almost exclusively in 1-3 rep ranges at 90+% of their one rep max. Try to do something similar for the 2k and you'll stall very quickly.

Similarly, as Henry says, the best way to get good at sprints on the erg is not actually do sprint on the erg: it's to get strong.

They would however be quite good for 30s PBs

Ner. Even if you do want to train this event on the erg you'd want much longer rest periods than 30s, otherwise your pace is going to be a lot slower and you're effectively training for a different event.

[NavigationHazard]

There's nothing inherent to 30"/30" intervals (or any other microintervals) that limits them to 'speed work.' What specific training effect they're going to have is going to depend on how many of them you do, at what rating(s) and at what pace(s), plus what you do during the rests (e.g. active rowing versus passive sitting there), plus maybe what drag factor you're using. These variables can be adjusted to give an extremely wide range of results.

In my opinion, there's no reason to fetishize long, continuous rowing sessions as a major component of 2k training. More than one road leads to Rome, as it were.

[blues_]

Interesting discussion. I hope you won't mind this (relative) newb jumping in with a question.
By way of background, I'm a 65 year old male who has been lifting and doing some sort of training since his college days. I haven't rowed, however, in several years, which formerly was performed indoors on an old Precor from the late 80's.

I am not interested in competing except against myself but I am interested in cardio / conditioning to supplement weight training twice a week with the major compound movements: deadlifts, presses, rows, etc.

From the perspective of benefiting cardio health but not causing setbacks with regard to weight training, how would you mix up rowing three days a week in terms of utilizing HIIT / Intervals vs. LISS workouts on the Model D. (I've had mine for just over three weeks now and use it Tuesday, Friday and Saturday to supplement weight training on Monday / Thursday.)

Thanks for any info you might share in terms of your own thoughts, pointing to other threads or resources etc.

Mods, if this is better posted elsewhere, please feel free to move it wherever you deem proper.

[jackarabit]

Old 11-Charlies will know you got to bracket the target and then fire for effect. For 2k prep and the old standard 2.5k, speed and endurance intervals (PetePlan), l1 and 2 (WolverinePlan), and AN and AT (in the Interactive) are the suburbs of “specificity.”. Ground zero for the 15-30x30” business is 500ville, home of max power.