Can One Increase Maximal Heart Rate With Training?

[David Pomerantz]

Hi,
As I’ve described in some other posts, I’m doing a Row Pro 5K plan. I’m about 3/4 of the way through the 14 week plan and just finished my third of four time trials. I actually had the worst time of the three time trials I’ve done. Looking for some sort of a silver lining, I noticed that my maximal heart rate hit a number I didn’t think it could. I’m 55 years old and until today thought my MHR was 183. Today I hit 190. I know lower performance with higher HR is not the direction I want to go. But is there some (any) good news in hitting 190? Thanks,

Dave

[G-dub]

Congratulations! You hit 190 HR! Sorry, that’s all you get unfortunately

[David Pomerantz]

G-dub,
You and I are pretty much the same age. I see your various times below. Those are pretty much what I was doing 20 years ago. Are those times current for you? Do you think at 55 one can do as well as 45?

Dave

[G-dub]

Pretty current. Last 2 seasons. You can do whatever you work for I truly believe, recognizing we all have a limit somewhere. That could be time, desire, dna, whatever. I didn’t row 20 years ago so have nothing to compare to. I just feel like I’ve been working hard and getting whatever the results are out of it. As you know it takes a bit of courage to go deep into a TT and others on here have more of that than I do I think. But for a short stocky 56 year old I feel pretty good about some of my results! Stick with it - it’s all about finding your own limits I think. And it’s all so relative. To me guys like Ed and Mike and Lindsay and Jack (sorry, I know there are a bunch of others too) are guys I look up to. They row their potential and do so with the right spirit for competition and enjoying the process of doing it

[Dangerscouse]

HR is such a strange and esoteric subject I honestly don't think there is any benefit in comparing.

Danny Graham has done a HM in 1hr 13m and a 2k of 6:15 (I think) yet his max HR is about 165. I have also seen people going over 200 but they aren't any faster than Danny.

I agree with Glenn's comments and beating times from age 45 is potentially possible but it's very subjective and there's no golden rule.

I'm finding HR monitoring a bit restricting and I'm using it less and less. You will have bad days, just try and learn from it and use 'angry resolve' to beat it next time

[hjs]

We can,t train HF. And in itself Hf says little. Its about how much blood it can pump around. So its hf x pumpvolume that matters. Training can make our heart bigger, aerobic work, more the seize, anaerobic work the strenght, the walls get thicker.
Our heart is in the end just a part of the body. And just like any other part it can and vary a lot from person to person. Hf is certainly not a measurenent of fitness. Untrained people often have high hf, including max.
Training can even lower our max a bit, more volume, loweres the pumpspeed a bit. But at the same time, training can keep up our max.
In the end its just one variable, comparing to others is not usefull. Our own rest hf and max matter. But again only as tools not as goals to work with/for.

[JerekKruger]

Max heart rate can't be increased through training no. What does seem to be the case is that exercising regularly slows the rate at which is decreases with age.

As for whether you can match your times from 20 years ago, that really depends on how close to your potential you were back then. I've smashed my times from 10 years ago, but I wasn't training at all hard back then; meanwhile I think it's safe to say most former Olympic athletes aren't going to match their age 30 times in their 50s, no matter how hard they train.

[Gammmmo]

Max heart rate can't be increased through training no. What does seem to be the case is that exercising regularly slows the rate at which is decreases with age.

This. Mine maxed out at ~202-203 at the age of 23-24 IIRC on a bike, now on the erg at 46 I am 10 beats lower for a 20 odd year difference. Go figure...

As for whether you can match your times from 20 years ago, that really depends on how close to your potential you were back then. I've smashed my times from 10 years ago, but I wasn't training at all hard back then; meanwhile I think it's safe to say most former Olympic athletes aren't going to match their age 30 times in their 50s, no matter how hard they train.

Of course you can - your absolute vo2 for a given weight may come down if MHR reduces BUT you can offset this by training your lactate threshold to be closer to your Vo2 max, gain muscle mass to increase vo2 that way (to a point), get mentally tougher, increase stroke volume by training more etc etc.

[JerekKruger]

This. Mine maxed out at ~202-203 at the age of 23-24 IIRC on a bike, now on the erg at 46 I am 10 beats lower for a 20 odd year difference. Go figure...

There's also a difference between sports. Not sure how rowing compares to cycling, but cycling tends to be lower than running for example.

Of course you can - your absolute vo2 for a given weight may come down if MHR reduces BUT you can offset this by training your lactate threshold to be closer to your Vo2 max, gain muscle mass to increase vo2 that way (to a point), get mentally tougher, increase stroke volume by training more etc etc.

Sure, though it still depends on how highly trained you were in your youth. If you were pretty highly trained in your youth then you already had a lot of those things highly trained back then, so it's going to take a lot of work to train them enough to overcome the negative effects of ageing. Highly trained enough and it's probably impossible.

[jamesg]

I noticed that my maximal heart rate hit a number I didn’t think it could.

Getting to and measuring MHR requires good technique and fitness, without which it probably won't be possible to work hard enough for long enough. So well done.

But is it worth the bother? Any formula such as 220-Age or 205-Age/2 can give a number, albeit a rough guess or average. They don't have to be accurate, since they're not much use anyway.

On the other hand, exercise reduces the rest or minimum HR, which is probably more important, if we consider the causes and effects. Takes no effort at all to measure that.

[Gammmmo]

@Tom - think MHR is highest with running then erging I'd say then cycling then swimming

And yes, highly trained in your 20s will nearly always beat highly trained in say your 40s. The fact is most people don't fulfil their potential irrespective of age.

[Remo]

I applaud you for keeping track of your HR and your Max HR because theses variables provide a lot of information and feedback for your training. I use an HR monitor for nearly every workout.

There is evidence out there that for some people Max HR will go down slightly as they get in better shape. (see: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10688280 ) That said, while exercise may not increase your max HR it does improve your ability to reach your Max HR, which by all accounts you are achieving.

There are a lot a variables that go into the maximum HR that you can reach on a given day, including: 1). how you slept, 2). what exercise (rowing, running, ...) you are doing, 3). your recent exercise history, 4). what you have eaten recently, 5). how hydrated you are, 6. whether or not you have you gotten a good warmup, 7). What is your planned workout.

Lastly, keep track of your resting heart rate. Before you get out of bed in the morning, use a clock or a watch and count your heart beats over the course of a minute. As you get in better shape your resting HR will go down. Dropping your resting HR by one beat is worth the same as being reaching a Max HR 3 beats higher.

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

HR max actually decreases with increased training status (i.e. fitness). There's no way to increase your HRmax through exercise.

[strider]

I have massive heart disease. My first year in recovery from triple bypass surgery, my heart rate was able to climb back to near 160 eventually, with discomfort. But that took almost a full year. A month in, I could barely walk slow.

Over the next five years, with daily exercise, my max heart rate climbed little by little, at near peak work was 183. BUT I did not push harder than than I should. I never trained to exhaustion, or into fatigue.

That was at age 59, with estimated max HR of 161. I could do 4 minute intervals at that pace.

Ever heard of EPOC ? It can take days to recover from a maximal training session. That just reduces the amount you can train.

Max HR can and does increase with PROPER fitness training. Most people overdo it, being in a hurry, and that fatigue, a "badge of honor" in training, actually holds them back, long term. Discussing it in a forum like this does not take the place of proper exercise physiology studies.

Fly and Die syndrome is a classic reason many athletes cannot improve their max HR. The heart does not thrive on adrenaline, it needs a good gradual warm-up of 6-10 minutes into peak capacity. Training lowers the RESTING heart rate. It can raise the MAX heart rate. Proper training also increases heart rate recovery. Heart Rate Recovery is another good training indicator that one is not overdoing one workouts.

In college we saw a lightweight do a 10 minute even paced interval at his FnD 3 minute average, at proper resistance. THAT was thought to be impossible. With a 5 minute rest, he then loaded up the brake/resistance to max for an oarsman DOUBLE his weight. A number of people had tried that resistance, and no one could pull more than a few strokes, cold. No one. The guy then ripped off a one minute interval, that looked at if there was NO resistance on the machine, the flywheel spinning free. Others got on right afterwards, to try the weight. No one could budge it again, let alone do a 60 second interval at about 35 spm. Like Arthur pulling the sword from the stone. He was accused of magically "cheating" the machine, or somehow having some kind of magic evaporating grease. He was a hard working collegiate oarsman.

Work hard, train right, use good body mechanics.

Fly and Die is bad for you. You exhaust the heart, and can't truly recover while actively working hard. Lack of Warm-up is bad for you. This lightweight also rowed a slightly different technique, using his legs more, and arms after legs (for those of you who prefer back, and arms and legs together).

Better have the 1st 25% just off your best pace, pick it up to pace in the middle, then pump it up fast and furious to your max the last 15-20%, at max sustainable pace through the finish. And, warm-up first.

[JerekKruger]

You've made this statement before strider, but so far you've given no evidence that max heart rate can increase in healthy individuals. Given that all sources I've read say it can't, and in fact some say it decreases a little in highly trained individuals, I'm dubious of your claims. If you have relevant physiological studies on healthy individuals feel free to share them.