Concept2 Forum

I'm wondering what is a reasonable way to keep adding volume. I'm currently rowing about 6 hours per week and a lot of that has been fairly intensive. I've noticed that my heart rate drops pretty slowly between intervals, which is a typical sign of bad basic cardiovascular fitness. The program I've followed has prescribed me heart rates to follow as well as estimated paces, but the paces are way off (far too slow) for short interval pieces while for long pieces I have to stay in the upper part of the estimated pace range (prescribed paces too fast)

I've decided that I'm going to be doing heavy lifting for strength and only do long slow distance for rowing. I'm planning on starting at 5x50min per week with my heart rate in the UT2 range. I assume that this should already start bringing me results. At the same time I should probably start slowly adding volume. Is there some recommended rate, so that I do not add too much when less would already provide me with the same results?

Another questions is that if I want to do more volume at what point would it make sense to do two long sessions on e.g weekends? I.e. what length of a session is a good idea to split in half if any?

I know about the Pete Plan, but it only gives me ranges and doesn't really say much about a progression for increasing the distances. The Pete Plan is also a bit tricky to follow, since I'm currently travelling a lot and it's hard to stick to fixed days during the week. Instead I can fix the amount of minutes on the rower as a weekly average.

efagerho wrote:I'm wondering what is a reasonable way to keep adding volume. I'm currently rowing about 6 hours per week and a lot of that has been fairly intensive. I've noticed that my heart rate drops pretty slowly between intervals, which is a typical sign of bad basic cardiovascular fitness. The program I've followed has prescribed me heart rates to follow as well as estimated paces, but the paces are way off (far too slow) for short interval pieces while for long pieces I have to stay in the upper part of the estimated pace range (prescribed paces too fast)

I've decided that I'm going to be doing heavy lifting for strength and only do long slow distance for rowing. I'm planning on starting at 5x50min per week with my heart rate in the UT2 range. I assume that this should already start bringing me results. At the same time I should probably start slowly adding volume. Is there some recommended rate, so that I do not add too much when less would already provide me with the same results?

Another questions is that if I want to do more volume at what point would it make sense to do two long sessions on e.g weekends? I.e. what length of a session is a good idea to split in half if any?

I know about the Pete Plan, but it only gives me ranges and doesn't really say much about a progression for increasing the distances. The Pete Plan is also a bit tricky to follow, since I'm currently travelling a lot and it's hard to stick to fixed days during the week. Instead I can fix the amount of minutes on the rower as a weekly average.

Are you new to rowing? Like you my cardio fitness isn't good but it's getting better. Since I'm new my rowing seems intense for me but I push myself. Currently I'm doing the Basic Conditoning plan which is a progression rowing at UT1. The goal is to eventually row for 30 minutes at UT1.

http://therowingcompany.com/training/gu ... nditioning

I'm currently at 5X5' with 2 minute rest between sets. And for an unfit person like me this is intense. I'm pretty beat after the workout and work up a sweat. I'm no expert but my goal isn't to lose weight so UT2 for 50 minutes wouldn't suit me. The goal of the program is to row for 30 minutes straight at UT1 to build my fitness base then I can incorporate other types of training. If I was looking to lose weight then I would be doing long rows at lower band.

Sorry, I forgot that "bad cardio" can mean something much worse. I meant that my cardio is bad in comparison to what I can push myself to on under 500m distances. I can row a 500m in my current shape in around 1:32, but to keep myself within the UT2 range for 50min, I need to row at a pace of 2:27/500m.

EDIT: I'm also new to rowing. Started 7 weeks ago.

efagerho wrote:Sorry, I forgot that "bad cardio" can mean something much worse. I meant that my cardio is bad in comparison to what I can push myself to on under 500m distances. I can row a 500m in my current shape in around 1:32, but to keep myself within the UT2 range for 50min, I need to row at a pace of 2:27/500m.

EDIT: I'm also new to rowing. Started 7 weeks ago.

Are you also new to exercise? I'm new about 2 months and started exercising after many years. So my cardio fitness was bad but getting better. When I first started rowing for 5X1'(6X1' etc) was tough. Then the next week 5X2'(6X2' etc) was tough but I started to progress, then the next week 5X3'. Now I'm at 5X5' which is still tough but a lot better than 5X1'.

Yesterday morning I wanted to try to add another 5' making it 6X5' but was only able to go 5X5', 1X3' which disappointed me but still a progression from 5X5'. What's important I realized according to this plan is a days rest. When I first started I was rowing 6-7 days/week and was wrecked. Now with a days rest I'm able to perform my workout easier but still very tough. Also another member suggested a longer rest between sets which helped a lot. I was too regimented at 30 second rest between sets but the program suggests rest as needed. I was previously taking a 30 second rest doing nothing, now I take a 2 minute rest but after 1 minute I start rowing light then when rest goes to 0 I ramp it up to my SPM and work per stroke. I'm not concerned about distance at this point in my career but time.

Once I can row 1X30'/20SPM at the work per stroke(6-6.4W) I'll be jumping for joy because that will be the fitness base. Then I can work on other stuff like the Pete Plan or other programs out there.

Hi,
I assume that you are using a heart rate monitor?
How did you determine your max heart rate and min heart rate to figure out your training zones?

I ask because some of the methods (220-age) to guess maxHR can badly mislead you in finding you correct training intensity.

As to your original question. I would add about 20 minutes a week. So, next week make 2 of the sessions 60' instead of 50'. Other thoughts:
- keep your stroke rate consistent in your distance rowing. Something in the 18-22 range is good
- it's ok to break up the time into 20' chunks with 1' breaks. Staying hydrated is more important than a fully continuous session to avoid cardio vascular drift.
- it's a good idea to make some sessions long and some shorter, especially if you're lifting as well.
- if you are mixing strength training and endurance rowing, make sure you row first and then lift. Endurance exercise is catabolic and will prevent the desired recovery from a strength training session.

Good luck!

I measured my max HR by rowing 3x500m with 20 seconds of rest. I got my HR up to 203 doing this. Min HR was measured by having my HR monitor next to my bed and measuring my pulse on a Saturday morning after getting plenty of sleep. I've used the general HRR formulas to compute my zones.

I've currently been rowing at 17 SPM at damper setting 4 when I do a 50min row and focusing on doing powerful strokes. Rowing at row stroke rate is not a problem, since I've got plenty of strength. Yes, I always do strength after rowing, but for heavy benching I always need to rest an hour between, since my lats start cramping after a long rowing session. I need to eat some carbs and drink plenty first.

I can row a 500m in my current shape in around 1:32, but to keep myself within the UT2 range for 50min, I need to row at a pace of 2:27/500m.

There's something odd here: 1:32 is 450W, but 2:27 only 110W, hardly powerful. This suggests you have a technical problem that stops you training at all. UT2 would be at slightly less than half your 500m power, i.e 170-200W (2:06 - 2:00 pace).

Suggest you try it in shortish pieces to start with, maybe 5'+1' rest, rating 20, carry on as long as possible.

The backstop drill in the video here might help: http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... que-videos

The objective is to pull long reasonably hard but quick strokes. Damper 3 or less, drag no more than 130 - this and stroke length are essential.

My problem is really that if I put more power into the stroke (this is at 17SPM) my HR goes up to around 160. I can row at a HR of 160-170 for almost forever (tried 90 minutes a few weeks back and it felt light about 2:14/500m pace). However, doing almost any sort of activity my HR jumps above 150.

I used to have this issue when I was running. I could not do any sort of jogging at a HR under 130, even though a program I tried to follow prescribed this as recovery. At the same time I could run a 5K in 20 minutes... I suspect this is caused by having a fairly high anaerobic treshold due to having done high intensity sports for 10+ years, but never having done any sort of long slow cardio.

Yesterday's workout is according to RowPro:

Totals: 50:00.0 10,416m 2:24.0/500m 117.2W 17SPM

My HR crept steadily from 138 up to 151. I suspect the limiting factor in my conditioning is precisely that I can't function properly at low HRs. This is over a spectrum of multiple sports, so I don't think it's a technique issue. I've been told my rowing technique is good by a coach.

It might be good for you to do a more formal step test to figure out where your LT is. I was very frustrated trying to keep my HR below 70% HRR, and I finally went and got a lactate testing kit. I discovered that my "ideal" training range for endurance was actually around 75% HRR. Since training at that intensity for 3 months, I have set new PBs for most distances from 5K up to FM.

I suspect that you could train optimally at 150 to 160 BPM even though by the generic percentages, it is on the high side of "normal".

jamesg wrote:

I can row a 500m in my current shape in around 1:32, but to keep myself within the UT2 range for 50min, I need to row at a pace of 2:27/500m.

There's something odd here: 1:32 is 450W, but 2:27 only 110W, hardly powerful. This suggests you have a technical problem that stops you training at all. UT2 would be at slightly less than half your 500m power, i.e 170-200W (2:06 - 2:00 pace).

Suggest you try it in shortish pieces to start with, maybe 5'+1' rest, rating 20, carry on as long as possible.

The backstop drill in the video here might help: http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... que-videos

The objective is to pull long reasonably hard but quick strokes. Damper 3 or less, drag no more than 130 - this and stroke length are essential.

Ut2 is certainly not half of 500 meter power. Thst very much depends on ones personal strenght and aerobic fitness. That rule of thumb means nothing. A pure sprinter will never reach 50%. Someone with lots of slow muscle fibre the other way around. 2.27 is not fast, but it is what is.

efagerho wrote:I measured my max HR by rowing 3x500m with 20 seconds of rest. I got my HR up to 203 doing this. Min HR was measured by having my HR monitor next to my bed and measuring my pulse on a Saturday morning after getting plenty of sleep. I've used the general HRR formulas to compute my zones.

I've currently been rowing at 17 SPM at damper setting 4 when I do a 50min row and focusing on doing powerful strokes. Rowing at row stroke rate is not a problem, since I've got plenty of strength. Yes, I always do strength after rowing, but for heavy benching I always need to rest an hour between, since my lats start cramping after a long rowing session. I need to eat some carbs and drink plenty first.

You proberly have a higher max. 210 plus would not surprice me. Doing the test you did is not taxing the aerobic system enough, so you proberly did not see you max. But proberly not that important.

Why do you want to up your meters. At the moment your fitness is proberly better served with shorter faster work.

hjs: The reason is that long slow work is the work I've never done. Typically things you have never trained give you the biggest improvement. My wife was an international level figure skater and when she does interval work her HR drops incredibly quickly after the interval is over. She used to train 25-30 hours per week and most of it was very low intensity technique work... and I suspect here is the main reason for her awesome aerobic base.

efagerho wrote:hjs: The reason is that long slow work is the work I've never done. Typically things you have never trained give you the biggest improvement. My wife was an international level figure skater and when she does interval work her HR drops incredibly quickly after the interval is over. She used to train 25-30 hours per week and most of it was very low intensity technique work... and I suspect here is the main reason for her awesome aerobic base.

I think this is very true. A few months of low intensity (~75% HRR, 2.0 mmol/l lactate), long duration (80min) sessions did a world of good for me.

gregsmith01748 wrote:

efagerho wrote:hjs: The reason is that long slow work is the work I've never done. Typically things you have never trained give you the biggest improvement. My wife was an international level figure skater and when she does interval work her HR drops incredibly quickly after the interval is over. She used to train 25-30 hours per week and most of it was very low intensity technique work... and I suspect here is the main reason for her awesome aerobic base.

I think this is very true. A few months of low intensity (~75% HRR, 2.0 mmol/l lactate), long duration (80min) sessions did a world of good for me.

Yes, but from a total different starting point, rowing at 2.20 plus pace is so slow that you hardly work anything.
When some one is very shape it hardly doesn,t matter what you, you will improve fast.
The current 50 min is plenty long enough and mixing things up will yield betterand faster results imo.

Typically things you have never trained give you the biggest improvement.

That's a great way of saying it, thanks. Usually we get "Train your Weakness". I never know which one to start on.

25-30 hours per week and most of it was very low intensity technique work

A very interesting insight into figure skating. Well there we are. Xeno M (an Olympic sculler with a gold and a silver) did the same tho' I guess his idea of low differs from that of most of us. Just decide what is "very low". My guess is anything from 1.5 to 2 W/kg fit weight, so 110W will get you fit (= improve Lactate clearance) if you go on long enough and are not very large, though 120-140 could be quicker.

The technical side of erging is simple, if you relax and pull long quick strokes (low drag) it's done, but this does not mean that the slow work is then over and done with.