Beginner seeking advice

[gfxprotege]

Hi all,

About me: I'm 6'1, 205lbs, and thats not muscle. I'm not in good shape whatsoever (low strength, low endurance, work a sedentary job, you get the deal).

My apartment complex's gym just installed a concept2 pm5. I watched all the videos over on the concept2 website and went down to practice a bit to get a feel for it. So far, so good! It felt good, no pain in bad places, no horrible soreness, i just felt good.

So I followed workout #1 today (found here: http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... t-workouts which is 4 sets of 5 minutes).

I know (and fully expected) that my numbers were bad. I rowed 4x5 minutes at a damper setting of 4 at what felt like a comfortable challenge (I wasn't dying, but it wasn't easy either). My average pace for each set was ~2:17 and SPM were 27. I know with practice, improving technique, and time, these numbers will improve. I'm not worried about that.

What I'd like to know is this: the second workout has sets with SPM of 20,22,24,24. Honestly, I felt like 27 was a comfortable pace. My assumption is to get the SPM down to 20 but maintain/improve on my average pace, I'll need to increase the damper setting. Is that correct? I feel like 4 was a challenge to begin with, do you have any recommendations? On my last set, I went all out for the last 30 seconds and was only able to get a pace of 1:50 and there's just no way I'd be able to maintain that kind of sprint for much longer, so I know I have much to improve on when it comes to technique, strength, and endurance. Thats why I'm here.

Is the recommendation to repeat the first workout until you build up some strength/conditioning and then move to #2 and so on? Should I just be cycling through the 5 workouts as I go? Also, how many days a week is recommended for someone completely out of shape to be rowing?

If there are any other beginner resources aside from the FAQ here and the concept2 website, please share. I'm eager to learn more and to improve.

[Cyclist2]

Welcome to the wonderful, frustrating, painful, exhilarating world of indoor rowing!

It sounds like you are off on the right track. Your fitness will increase and your times will decrease quickly in the early stages.

Rowing at lower stroke rates is more about technique than damper setting. A real high drag will slow down the drive, but not significantly. The trick to low stroke rates, in my experience, is this; at the finish (legs extended, back at 11 o'clock, handle at your sternum) push the handle away briskly, then hinge at the hips to get your upper body back to 1 o'clock (in the catch position). From there, you can start bending your knees and moving up the rail as fast or slow as you want. That regulates the stroke rate. Then, when you are at the catch (knees fully bent and the same upper body position) you are ready for the next explosive drive using your legs/back/arms.

Low stroke rates build endurance and good technique. It's hard to learn because your body isn't used to this rowing thing, but as you get some time on the machine and refine your technique, you'll get the hang of it. I'd recommend you just follow the C2 recommendations, working on form and building endurance. Pretty soon, you'll "get' it" and can start other plans, or just follow your own. I'd recommend you row as many days as you are pain free, but keep it easy and work on technique, the speed and power will come. Don't injure yourself!

There are lots of how-to videos on YouTube, but be wary, some are more how-not-to, but there are a lot of good ones too. Have fun!

[hjs]

Re lower stroke rates. In my view not so much about technique, but mainly power per stroke. To keep the same pace, you simply have less strokes to do so.
Most beginners have a soft/weak stroke, building this is important.

Re setting 4, search dragfactor, lots about it to find. And no, you don,t need a higher setting.

Take it step by step. Try to use good full strokes, doing so your endurance and strenght will pick up.

[Rod]

My assumption is to get the SPM down to 20 but maintain/improve on my average pace, I'll need to increase the damper setting. Is that correct? I feel like 4 was a challenge to begin with, do you have any recommendations? On my last set, I went all out for the last 30 seconds and was only able to get a pace of 1:50 and there's just no way I'd be able to maintain that kind of sprint for much longer, so I know I have much to improve on when it comes to technique, strength, and endurance. Thats why I'm here.

No, you assume very wrong, raising the lever setting will not make your lower rate strokes faster,you need to understand ''Drag Factor'', here is some info that will help;

If the damper lever is on 4 (for example) on one machine it could have a very different level of resistance to 4 on another as they all vary depending on how much dust is accumulated in the fan cage so the way to know the resistance is ...the ''Drag Factor'' which is a measure of the speed at which the flywheel slows down. To set it.... On the monitor press ''More Options''.....then press ...''Display Drag Factor'' a box will come up with a number in it…that’s the drag factor...row some strokes raising or lowering the lever to adjust it. Raising the lever raises the number...lowering the lever lowers it. I'd suggest starting at 110 then experiment from there to find what suits you best, here's some useful info;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uc2HQILJhU

[Anth_F]

Take it step by step. Try to use good full strokes, doing so your endurance and strenght will pick up.

This^^

I now rate r19's a lot, on paces 6-7 months ago i was rating r21-22's. So it's taken a while to naturally progress, but it certainly comes in time with regular training.

[gfxprotege]

Thank you for the info on drag factor, this is something I was not aware of. I love stats and optimization (data scientist by trade), I can't wait to get to play around more with it.

I just discovered the beginner pete's plan, but I am definitely not in shape enough to start it. I'll stick to the 4x 5min's until I can do them with only a minute rest between, then I'll try stepping it up a bit more.

For figuring out a drag factor that feels best for me, would you suggest doing my first set of 5min at drag factor of 100, then step up by 10's (100, 110, 120, 130) until it just feels right?

[gfxprotege]

I now rate r19's a lot, on paces 6-7 months ago i was rating r21-22's. So it's taken a while to naturally progress, but it certainly comes in time with regular training.

Could you explain what the R ratings mean (r19, r21-22, etc)? I've seen the terminology but I can't seem to find what it means.

[hjs]

Thank you for the info on drag factor, this is something I was not aware of. I love stats and optimization (data scientist by trade), I can't wait to get to play around more with it.

I just discovered the beginner pete's plan, but I am definitely not in shape enough to start it. I'll stick to the 4x 5min's until I can do them with only a minute rest between, then I'll try stepping it up a bit more.

For figuring out a drag factor that feels best for me, would you suggest doing my first set of 5min at drag factor of 100, then step up by 10's (100, 110, 120, 130) until it just feels right?

A lower drag gives a faster drive, for now start low, after a few months you can always up it a bit. You really need no more drag at this point.

R = rating, or strokes per minute.

[Cyclist2]

For figuring out a drag factor that feels best for me, would you suggest doing my first set of 5min at drag factor of 100, then step up by 10's (100, 110, 120, 130) until it just feels right?

That sounds fine. It's like bicycle gearing, too high drag and it's like mashing the pedals at slow cadence, too low drag and it's like spinning the pedals. Most people are in the 120-130 range for most rows, with other DFs for specific training purposes.

But I thought your original question was HOW to do lower stroke rates. I can do 19 SPM at DF 180 or 100, I can do 40 SPM at DF 180 or 100. The drive time doesn't vary much, it's how fast you move back up the slide on the recovery.

All the other advice about power and stroke length, etc. is good. Most of my rows are 20-22 with a good strong drive. When I'm looking for more of a strength workout I use high DF, for long endurance I use a moderate DF. You want each stroke to be powerful and low stroke rates promote that, with a little reprieve to catch your breath on the recovery.

[hjs]

But I thought your original question was HOW to do lower stroke rates. I can do 19 SPM at DF 180 or 100, I can do 40 SPM at DF 180 or 100. The drive time doesn't vary much, it's how fast you move back up the slide on the recovery.

.

Not true, big differences in drag make drivetimes very different.
As a beginner use low drag, safer on the back and teaches a better technique. Higher drag lets you get away with a sloppier technique. Certainly at this point not something you would want.

[Cyclist2]

Not true, big differences in drag make drivetimes very different. As a beginner use low drag, safer on the back and teaches a better technique. Higher drag lets you get away with a sloppier technique. Certainly at this point not something you would want.

No argument with that - beginners should start with a low DF and low stroke rate. My example was extreme for illustration purposes. Of course the difference in drive time between 19 and 40 spm will be large but the difference in recovery time is even larger. However, I'm not talking about drag factor or extremes, I'm just trying to answer the question of HOW to get a lower stroke rate, that's all.

As a more reasonable example, you have to agree that the difference between drive time at stroke rates of 20 and 24 at the same DF is not too different (someone on here will have ErgData info that specifies exactly the difference in time), so to affect the stroke rate, it has to be in the recovery, and that's all I'm trying to emphasize - the stroke rate is more determined by the recovery time.

My wife just started indoor rowing again and was struggling with low stroke rates, because her strength and technique were not refined. Beginners always tend to have higher stroke rates because it's easier with sloppy form and unconditioned muscles. Once I showed her the proper techniques and how to regulate the recovery time (stroke rate) with the rate of knee bend, she suddenly started getting more power in each stroke - her form and strength improved quickly.

[Remo]

At this point in your rowing career, do not worry about the numbers! I.e. pace, stroke rate, or power. (you can look, just don't worry)

What you need to do now is to allow your body and brain to begin adapting to rowing as an exercise. Adaptation means teaching your muscles how to act in a coordinated manner to most efficiently apply power to flywheel and to begin conditioning your muscles and cardiovascular system to better supply that power. [No matter how far you go in a sport, the whole point of training is to facilitate adaptation and thus improve (or maintain) one's ability to perform a given exercise.] Over the next two weeks, focus on light rows just to teach your body how to move and handle the load. You can expect to see a significant gain in efficiency at which point you can start worrying about stroke rate, power, and pace.

As an aside, I see that you have watched the C2 videos on how to row. In the very first video entitled "The Rowing Stroke" they have you do a drill which I will call "The Pick Drill." It is a great warm up drill. I have been using it for 40+ years to start most workout. It starts off with "Arms Only," followed by "Arms and Body" (which I prefer to call "Body Swing"), "Quarter Slide", then "Full Slide". I recommend spend a minute or two to run through this drill followed by another minute or two of easy rowing before you start the body of your workouts.

[gfxprotege]

I went back to the gym this evening for a second workout and followed the consensus advice: set the dragfactor to 110 (was a setting of about 6 on the wheel, is that normal?), took a slight pause at the end of the pull and went slower on the recovery. I didn't focus at all on anything except not stopping and keeping the SPM around 20. I only wound up doing 3 sets of 5 minutes (ran out of water and the apt gym doesn't have a water fountain), but it felt really great.

My back's a bit sore. Not in a bad, i think i may have hurt myself way, but in a good "these are muscles i haven't used in a long time" way. My goal is to do this workout (4x5minutes) 3+ days a week for the next few weeks just so i can build the self discipline to keep going. I know it was recommended not to focus on the numbers, but thats kind of how my mind works. I like to have numbers to track progress. keeping drag factor low to minimize injury, keeping spm low to ensure i work on technique, and getting to track how far i go in each 5 minute set are ways to keep my mind focused and engaged, otherwise i'll wind up getting bored or giving up.

[hjs]

Drag/setting. This depends on dust in the fan, new/cleaned drag is max, this will slowly get lower if the machine is not cleaned.

[gfxprotege]

what are all your thoughts on training with a heart rate monitor? When I used to cycle, most of my rides were with a band, trying to keep my HR between (170-age and 180-age). With the erg, I feel like it would be a challenge to keep my HR that low, just as it was when i first started cycling.