Concept2 Forum

So I started erg on 6/1/17 for the first time. 48yr old, 6-2", 215lbs

On 6/8/17 I did a timed 2K at 9:35

On 7/11/17 I started a program (dark horse) and work out 2X a week till now.

On 10/9/17 I did a timed 2X at 9:32 at the end of a 45 minutes workout. I only shaved off 3 seconds in 2 months of working out! This seems pathetic to me but maybe that's normal?

Frankly, I still feel like I need 3-4 days to recover after a 45 minutes erg workout. It is kicking my butt! I have noticed my upper body looks larger (biceps, shoulders, etc).

Then I look at someone of the guys on this board in their 50's doing 2K in 7:19. This blows my mind. I am either horribly out of shape, doing something terribly wrong or maybe their is something wrong with my heart or something. I can't imagine ever getting to 7.5min 2K when it took me 2 months to shave off 3 seconds. At that rate, I''ll be 130 years old!

Hats off to you guys. I'm blown away what a lot of you guys can do. It's truly amazing.

Everyone starts at the beginning...

The people you notice on here, for the most part, have been doing it for a long time (I've been rowing and erging for over 30 years), are pretty committed, and put rowing/erging at or near the top of their personal priority list. If you want a broader view, go to the C2 Rankings (concept2.com/rankings). That still is only the guys who are into it enough to record their times, but a wider spectrum anyway.

If you keep at it, watch lots of videos (C2 videos are the ones to start with, IMO) to improve your technique, and follow a good plan, you'll get there.

Good luck!

@Joefish - welcome. Have u tried doing a 2K after having only warmed up for say 5-10mins? You say you did your 9:32 at the end of a 45min block so presumably you weren't fresh anyway? Cheers...

Joefish wrote:On 7/11/17 I started a program (dark horse) and work out 2X a week till now.

Do you mean that you row twice a week? If so, I don't think that's enough to get significant improvements. If you want that (and your body will allow) I'd say you need to row at least three times a week, preferably four. If you do that, but don't injure yourself, push hard and have good technique, I can assure you that you will see dramatic improvements.

You mention that you need 3-4 days to recover. Is that because you're sore in some particular spot (e.g. an elbow or shoulder) or is it overall issues? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you eating well? Just a few thing to think about.

Good Luck

You still have lots of untapped potential, its just a question of the right training and you can quite frankly, shock yourself with the results you can get.

45 is not old, my PB's were at that age and the results are still good at 50, we row online and do a 2500m at 2:00 pace for a cool down after a 30 minute or a 10K at 1:58 or faster.

Joefish wrote:
Then I look at someone of the guys on this board in their 50's doing 2K in 7:19. This blows my mind. I am either horribly out of shape, doing something terribly wrong or maybe their is something wrong with my heart or something. I can't imagine ever getting to 7.5min 2K when it took me 2 months to shave off 3 seconds. At that rate, I''ll be 130 years old!

Hats off to you guys. I'm blown away what a lot of you guys can do. It's truly amazing.

I'm 60 years old and weigh 163, I do the 2k under 7 minutes but have worked up to it so you have plenty of potential to do the same....here's a plan that has helped me so maybe worth you having a look, good luck with it and do keep us informed on progress, I'll encourage you all I can.

http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/the-pete-plan/

As others have said, build up aerobic fitness is a slow process. Keep chipping away at it and you'll get better.

A couple of points based on what you say:

• To get a real idea of what your 2k time is you need to give yourself to time to rest. When I did my 2k test I took three days off, then did a very gentle 30 minutes the day before (I seem to perform better when I've done something the day before) then did my test. Doing it after a 45 minute session will give you a slower result.
• To add to the previous point, you need a strategy for a good 2k test. You need a well thought out target and a pacing strategy that will allow you to hit that target. Without those two things you'll either go off too slowly and never be able to make up for lost time, or you'll go off too fast and die long before the end, both of which give a much worse result.
• You mention your biceps and shoulders looking bigger which might suggest you're favouring you're favouring your upper body over your legs and hips. This will make you a lot slower. Next time you row have the monitor display the force curve and compare the result to one of the many websites that analyse these things.
• Rowing twice a week is not ideal. Bear in mind that the Dark Horse program is targeted at people adding rowing to an existing exercise program (most notably Crossfit). If rowing if your only/main form of exercise then I'd recommend at least three times a week, and four would be a better target.
• If you're struggling to recover from a 45 minute session then you should probably do shorter sessions or reduce your pace.

I'd recommend trying out the Interactive Programme. Set your athlete level to 1 or 2, pick how many sessions you want to do a week (level 1 only allows 3 per week, level 2 allows 3 or 4), enter 26 weeks to race (this simply generates a longer period of base building before transitioning into the preparation stage which is probably a good idea for you, don't worry if you're not convinced you want to commit to half a year of the same programme [though it's not bad thing to do so]), enter your current 2k time and age, approximate your resting and max heart rate (don't worry about these, they are required to generate the programme but you'll use the 500m split pacing guidelines rather than heart rate zones) and press the "Get Training Programme" and you're done. To give you some idea of what it suggests here's week 3 of a level 2 program 3 times per week, with approximations of your states:

Session 1: 2x13min at between 2:50 and 2:41
Session 2: 2x14min at between 2:50 and 2:41
Session 3: 2x15min at between 2:50 and 2:41

The Pete Plan is great, but I'd say the full plan is too much for you at the moment, and the advantage the IP has over the beginner plan is that it gives you specific pace targets.

Sounds wierd, how do you fitness wise with other things? For your build those times are way off.
Can you do pushups? Pullups, airsquats?

hjs wrote:Sounds wierd, how do you fitness wise with other things? For your build those times are way off. Can you do pushups? Pullups, airsquats?

Yes I would have thought that even with limited training there would have been much more progress given the "newbie" effect of rapid early gains. I wonder about technique - maybe not enough legs and too much upper body? Might be worth posting a vid for analysis. Definitely need more than 2 sessions a week. Beginners Pete or the IP would be worth looking at though again will need to go 3 or 4 a week to do well.

Joefish wrote:Can you guys look at my video and critique my form. Specifics on the video: http://youtu.be/AUdffAiAXdk

This as the 4th 1000m row I did tonight. The video is the full 1000m row.

Results:

4:52.3 1,000m 2:26.1pace 112watts 685cal/hr 25sm 156hr

So far I have had the rower for about a month or so. 97K lifetime meters.

Sorry my head was out of the frame. I didn't have a tripod.

Thanks!
Joe

Joe's vid from thread head "Video feedback" (19 Sept.) has been pulled from utube. Rather unusual.

Joe, from what I've found, this group (in the forums) is a pretty in shape bunch and some are very much World class rowers. Some of the best of them don't like to brag on themselves (they are for the most part very humble).

Like others have said, we all started somewhere. You look at my times (and others) at 7:19 and think that's fast. Then I look at Lindsay and Rod and Gammo and think that's insane. I know I probably won't ever get under 7 minutes for a 2K, but I enjoy it a lot. It gives me something to strive for in my training, even though lately I feel like I've been regressing a bit.

All you can do is work at it and try to build up your endurance first. Honestly, it also took me 2 years to figure out form. When I get tired, I still get sloppy on form. If you haven't rowed unstrapped, start working on that a little at a time. Rowing unstrapped helps to teach you the sequencing better. I didn't realize until I rowed unstrapped that I wasn't fully starting the drive with my legs (I was loading my back). A proper rowing stroke will utilize your legs most (and your legs don't tire as fast as your upper body). Perhaps it's just you're using too much upper body and not enough legs.

Don't be discouraged by times. There are some insane times out there for guys over 50 and 60. Just remember that some of them are World Class. 7:19 (which is my time) is around the 75th percentile at my age group, that's it. I worked 3 years to get there, gradually building meters every year. My first year was barely 20K a week (that was only a few months), second year something like 28, third year around 33K and now I'm averaging well over 40K a week (that includes off weeks, sick weeks and vacation weeks) and expect to be over 50K a week by the end of the season assuming I stay healthy.

Some of the times you see are (from what I've learned) the difference between someone like you and I and a very athletic person. I was somewhat athletic younger but never worked on cardio endurance. A big issue with someone starting over 40 is what cardio endurance history do they have. There are physiological changes that occur, especially when someone is younger, by doing massive amounts of slower, steady state cardio. Those physiological adaptations seem to stay for a lifetime if you did a lot of work early in life. Those that come on here and go sub 7 within a short time usually are those that not only did massive amounts of slow, steady work when young but also kept it up in adult life (by biking or running or similar). They have a massive "engine" that they have worked on for life to build. I'll never have one of those engines because I detested endurance sports when I was young. I was a much better sprinter than long distance runner. I do believe that once you reach 40 or 50, your heart adaptations can only change so much. I'm not saying you can't massively improve, but for certain people (perhaps me), a sub 7 might not be physically possible at that stage. Maybe an 8 minute 2K is your upper limit (when you consider time you can train, training adaptability/training tolerance and physiological limitations).

Just do what you can and continue to work on form. The guys on here are great. No time is a bad time as long as you're striving to improve. Like others have suggested, it might help to see a video of your form. If you're self conscious of that, just work on rowing unstrapped and keep referring to training videos.

50 is the new 30

going slow to race fast isn't jsut a myth... build ing your aerobic helps...a lot.

Joe, everyone has covered it all, but i do suspect that you are rowing with too much upper body and not enough legs if your biceps are growing.

It might be worthwhile building up your general fitness doing another sport / activity and trying to build up your erg sessions too. Some strength training sounds advisable, all bodyweight exercises to start with push ups, planks, squats lunges etc.

Bear in mind sometimes you might feel unable to do another session but you do loosen up quickly, it's a bit like a beer on a bad hangover

Joefish wrote:So I started erg on 6/1/17 for the first time. 48yr old, 6-2", 215lbs

On 6/8/17 I did a timed 2K at 9:35

On 7/11/17 I started a program (dark horse) and work out 2X a week till now.

On 10/9/17 I did a timed 2X at 9:32 at the end of a 45 minutes workout. I only shaved off 3 seconds in 2 months of working out! This seems pathetic to me but maybe that's normal?

If you're rowing that slowly you, probably, have a technique issue. You're rowing arms only without using your legs to their full advantage. Rowing is a legs sport. Hauling anchor in a storm is an arms only sport.

Grab a camera, set it up side on to your ergo so we can see the full length of all 6ft 2 of you and your stroke from the flywheel all the way to the back. Publish the video of your rowing on YouTube. Post the link on here and the very kind folks on here will examine it and offer sound advice for how to improve.

On 10/9/17 I did a timed 2X at 9:32 at the end of a 45 minutes workout. I only shaved off 3 seconds in 2 months of working out! This seems pathetic to me but maybe that's normal?

Since we can only pull a certain number of strokes per minute, and rowing is a power sport, there needs to be a lot of work in each single stroke. Work is Length x Force, so both are needed. We have to learn how to do this. There's no point in cutting corners when there's nothing round said corner, and in any case learning how is the best possible training aid, because technique (devil take it) makes us work hard every single stroke. Don't worry, it's probably less painful than walking on hot coals. You won't need any training plan for basic fitness (endurance), just get on and do it, a bit more every day.

Try rowing at 200W and rate 20; maybe starting at 120W for a month or so. The backstop drill in the C2 video shows how it's done. You'll need to use the posture and sequence that enable the legs to do the work. If you can climb stairs, they're strong already, more than strong enough to get you fit if you use them.