Concept2 Forum

Hey guys I would really appreciate some advice.

I recently started exercising again and my old routine was primarily just weight lifting; Back/biceps day, Leg day, Chest/Shoulders/triceps day 6 times a week with one rest day.
This seemed to work well for me but I unfortunately neglected cardio as I have issues with my feet and so can't run for long without pain. However when I did do cardio I would hop on the erg and it was great for me.

So now that I'm trying to get fit again I've resumed my old weight lifting routine but I want to get some cardio in, however I'm unsure when is the best day to use the erg. I feel doing it on my rest day might defeat the purpose of it being a rest day and I want to aim for more than once a week. So I am currently thinking of doing it twice a week after one of my lifting sessions, but I don't know whether its best to do it on my Back day or my Leg day and whether to do intervals or just a steady 30 min row. I feel that the machine does work both my legs and back so the dilemma is if I do it on my Back day it might affect what I can squat the next day but if I do it on my Leg day maybe I'm not properly resting my back?

Sorry for all the questions, thanks in advance.

Short, high intensity before weights, longer easy work after weightlifting, either works for me.

I would absolutely have at least one complete rest day with no training at all. The body needs recovery time... weights 6 times a week is too much imo. I would spend more of the time building up cardio fitness on the erg. I guess it really depends how important the cardio is to you. I like to have a good aerobic base because i enjoy rowing 30-40 mins avg etc in most of my sessions.

I weightlift (strength train) 2 times per week avg, and row 3 times per week and feel it's a great balance for me. Everyone is different though, so it's very experimental until you find your sweet spot for how much is enough, and how much is too much.

H2O wrote:Short, high intensity before weights, longer easy work after weightlifting, either works for me.

Have recently wondered if the order and indeed timing of weights and cardio is important from an adaption point of view....anyone? Essentially you are sending two completely different signals to your body. Interference?

Gammmmo wrote:

H2O wrote:Short, high intensity before weights, longer easy work after weightlifting, either works for me.

Have recently wondered if the order and indeed timing of weights and cardio is important from an adaption point of view....anyone? Essentially you are sending two completely different signals to your body. Interference?

I always split them up to different times of the day. Cardio in the morning, weights in the afternoon. I understand that most people don't have the luxury of time though but that's how I do it.

6 days weights is not usefull, 3/4 a week is plenty for a natural lifter.

You could do warm ups cool down around weights. On days of a longer row/intervals.

lwtguy wrote:

Gammmmo wrote:

H2O wrote:Short, high intensity before weights, longer easy work after weightlifting, either works for me.

Have recently wondered if the order and indeed timing of weights and cardio is important from an adaption point of view....anyone? Essentially you are sending two completely different signals to your body. Interference?

I always split them up to different times of the day. Cardio in the morning, weights in the afternoon. I understand that most people don't have the luxury of time though but that's how I do it.

I lift for around an hour, then would do cardio almost immediately after but this was very tiring. Now i do not even do cardio on the days that i will be doing my weightlifting... much much better i found! I feel fresh and recovered properly, and can get a good solid cardio workout as a result.

Lift weights first, then do your 30minute row afterwards. Rowing after lifting is a lot easier than lifting after rowing. It also helps improve recovery time. It does not matter which day (back day, leg day) - just whatever fits your schedule.

For rowing intervals it may be better to do those on a non-lifting day.

Gammmmo wrote: Have recently wondered if the order and indeed timing of weights and cardio is important from an adaption point of view....anyone? Essentially you are sending two completely different signals to your body. Interference?

It's born out of necessity. The gym I work out in has no fans, the air is dead still. It is 5 degrees warmer in there than outside, in short incredibly hot. If I do a usual workout I am completely soaked including the shoes which leave a wet trail on the floor. In this condition I cannot go on any machines. Therefore I do a short warmup and then one hard piece <= 1250m.

This does not get me too sweaty and does not interfere with the weights. Obviously it is much less than a regular rowing workout. If I row after the weights I also do less (half) of a regular rowing workout. Still it is much better than doing nothing.

Gammmmo wrote:

H2O wrote:Short, high intensity before weights, longer easy work after weightlifting, either works for me.

Have recently wondered if the order and indeed timing of weights and cardio is important from an adaption point of view....anyone? Essentially you are sending two completely different signals to your body. Interference?

for fat lose - weights first to deplete the glycogen out, cardio after weights to burn the fat down.

edinborogh wrote:

Gammmmo wrote:

H2O wrote:Short, high intensity before weights, longer easy work after weightlifting, either works for me.

Have recently wondered if the order and indeed timing of weights and cardio is important from an adaption point of view....anyone? Essentially you are sending two completely different signals to your body. Interference?

for fat lose - weights first to deplete the glycogen out, cardio after weights to burn the fat down.

Fat loss while maintaining muscle mass, which I assume is a primary goal here, is an interesting topic. I've had best results doing low intensity aerobic work in a fasted state in order to burn almost exclusively fat. Daily intermittent fasting from approximately 6pm until noon the next day, along with an hour of low aerobic activity burns fat incredibly fast. Lifting or high intensity activities such as rowing intervals are done later in the day when you have fuel on board. Their Primary goal isn't fat burning, it's muscle maintenance/growth and stoking the engine to burn fat faster the next twelve hours.

When I've been strict about this protocol for a couple months my body completely transforms itself.

aharmer wrote:

edinborogh wrote: for fat lose - weights first to deplete the glycogen out, cardio after weights to burn the fat down.

Fat loss while maintaining muscle mass, which I assume is a primary goal here, is an interesting topic. I've had best results doing low intensity aerobic work in a fasted state in order to burn almost exclusively fat. Daily intermittent fasting from approximately 6pm until noon the next day, along with an hour of low aerobic activity burns fat incredibly fast. Lifting or high intensity activities such as rowing intervals are done later in the day when you have fuel on board. Their Primary goal isn't fat burning, it's muscle maintenance/growth and stoking the engine to burn fat faster the next twelve hours.

When I've been strict about this protocol for a couple months my body completely transforms itself.

This is indeed a topic I am trying to get a handle on. I read edinborough's comment and think that makes sense, then aharmer says nearly the opposite and that makes sense too. I have been doing what would be described as circuit training in the morning with a lot of body weight and dumbbell work and then rowing later in the day. I have wondered if it would make sense to switch that up, but really can't see that one way is better than the other. My current objective is weight loss first, while maintaining muscle mass. I expect that those who are looking for improvements in erg performance primarily would need a different approach.

calalli wrote:

aharmer wrote:

edinborogh wrote: for fat lose - weights first to deplete the glycogen out, cardio after weights to burn the fat down.

Fat loss while maintaining muscle mass, which I assume is a primary goal here, is an interesting topic. I've had best results doing low intensity aerobic work in a fasted state in order to burn almost exclusively fat. Daily intermittent fasting from approximately 6pm until noon the next day, along with an hour of low aerobic activity burns fat incredibly fast. Lifting or high intensity activities such as rowing intervals are done later in the day when you have fuel on board. Their Primary goal isn't fat burning, it's muscle maintenance/growth and stoking the engine to burn fat faster the next twelve hours.

When I've been strict about this protocol for a couple months my body completely transforms itself.

This is indeed a topic I am trying to get a handle on. I read edinborough's comment and think that makes sense, then aharmer says nearly the opposite and that makes sense too. I have been doing what would be described as circuit training in the morning with a lot of body weight and dumbbell work and then rowing later in the day. I have wondered if it would make sense to switch that up, but really can't see that one way is better than the other. My current objective is weight loss first, while maintaining muscle mass. I expect that those who are looking for improvements in erg performance primarily would need a different approach.

both could work.
cardio first thing in the morning after a night fast, will burn theoretically more fat.
if you dont do cardio first thing in the morning ( like me ), and you combine both cardio and weight lifting at the same session, start with weights first to deplete the glucose first and then cardio for fat loss.

i lost lots of weight doing only cardio ( rowing ), and then got stack for two months at the same weight.
i started lifting few days back following this routine and checking up yesterday, i lost 400 grams. small "gain" but a gain never the less.

aharmer wrote:I've had best results doing low intensity aerobic work in a fasted state in order to burn almost exclusively fat. Daily intermittent fasting from approximately 6pm until noon the next day, along with an hour of low aerobic activity burns fat incredibly fast. Lifting or high intensity activities such as rowing intervals are done later in the day when you have fuel on board. Their Primary goal isn't fat burning, it's muscle maintenance/growth and stoking the engine to burn fat faster the next twelve hours.

When I've been strict about this protocol for a couple months my body completely transforms itself.

This is roughly what I've been doing, except that I started intermittent fasting (almost identical schedule) six months before I added lifting weights to my rowing, and I don't break out weights/intervals as a separate "after I've eaten" workout. I experienced much the same as you -- lost something like 35 pounds of fat from IF and rowing. The muscle gain mostly happened after I added lifting. I've gained back something like 10 pounds from my minimum weight over the last several months most of it muscle.