Concept2 Forum

Hello all,

I've been at this rowing thing for about a year. Still having a real tough time getting my stroke rate down. Not exactly sure why.

Do you experienced people use basically the same drag factor for both your steady state pieces as well as your hard workouts?

Also, let's just say you're doing a SS piece at 2:00 and you want to be at 20 SPM. I'm sure it varies greatly from person to person but what would a normal drag factor range be for this workout?

I simply can't slow myself down! I can for maybe 5 minutes and then I naturally end up at maybe 27 or 28 SPM.

I'd say a typical drag for a low rate session like that would be 110-125

I personally now use 122 for everything

bend3333 wrote:
I simply can't slow myself down! I can for maybe 5 minutes and then I naturally end up at maybe 27 or 28 SPM.

How tall are you? What looks *natural* here highly depends on height ... of course you must be able to rate down if you want to.

P.

bend3333 wrote:I've been at this rowing thing for about a year. Still having a real tough time getting my stroke rate down. Not exactly sure why.

Untie your feet and row strapless. Spend more time working on your recovery, stop rushing forward to frontstops.

Get a video of your rowing, post it on YouTube, post the link on here and folks can give you an analysis.

Not being able to row low rate is not being able to calm down the recovery. Its cycling on the rowing. Going up and down in one motion. Drag is not the problem.

bend3333 wrote:Hello all,

I've been at this rowing thing for about a year. Still having a real tough time getting my stroke rate down. Not exactly sure why.

Do you experienced people use basically the same drag factor for both your steady state pieces as well as your hard workouts?

Also, let's just say you're doing a SS piece at 2:00 and you want to be at 20 SPM. I'm sure it varies greatly from person to person but what would a normal drag factor range be for this workout?

I simply can't slow myself down! I can for maybe 5 minutes and then I naturally end up at maybe 27 or 28 SPM.

I too found that I felt more comfortable at a higher than optimal stroke rate. I found three things that helped, (1) deliberately go slower than optimal for some workouts, say 18 - 20 while still trying to maintain a decent pace (say 2:00), (2) go strapless, (3) have someone look at your form. On the first point, focus on timing, 60-65% leg, 25-30% trunk bend, 10% arm pull. Practice exaggerating the extent to which each of the three components is separate and pay attention to the same timing on the recovery part of the stroke. On the third point, having someone, or a committee look at video of you on youtube may be somewhat helpful but having someone local work with you interactively is really helpful.

you may recall from a prior thread, we have similar backgrounds and situations, tallish former runners.

Whenever we had hard practices where we had to be at low rates, our coach would simply yell "FORCE THE RATE" until we finally got it right. It's supposed to fell slightly uncomfortable and unnatural. All you have to do is to force that rate down. Count three seconds on the recovery and as soon as you hit "3" then your drive begins. You will feel awkward at first and you definitely won't be going as fast, but eventually you'll get the hang of it.

I've found a very slight pause at the end of the stroke helps when I want to drop right down to 18. I'm normally happy to sit at 19, to the point where 20 feels noticeably faster, but 18 takes real deliberate effort to hold. I'm talking a microsecond pause. It may not be ideal form, but this is erging not in a boat so it doesn't really matter ...although I have read that some do pause at the end of the drive in a boat too.

Haven't touched the dial since removing the Cbreeze and adapting the drag accordingly.
Df is always on 140, be at R16 or r32..

aussieluke wrote:I've found a very slight pause at the end of the stroke helps when I want to drop right down to 18. I'm normally happy to sit at 19, to the point where 20 feels noticeably faster, but 18 takes real deliberate effort to hold. I'm talking a microsecond pause. It may not be ideal form, but this is erging not in a boat so it doesn't really matter ...although I have read that some do pause at the end of the drive in a boat too.

Not a "pause" necessarily but more of a hesitation. You don't want to stop at the finish, but slow down the hands-away/ turnaround.

Thanks for the responses.

Somebody asked how tall I am. I'm 6'2" and weigh 205. Seems like everything points to me benefiting from a slower stroke.

Someone mentioned cycling. I have a background in cycling and I've always naturally had a very fast cadence.

It sounds like I just need to really concentrate and get it done!

lwtguy wrote:Not a "pause" necessarily but more of a hesitation. You don't want to stop at the finish, but slow down the hands-away/ turnaround.

No, the hands away should be quicker. Try rowing strapless and that pause will send you off the back!

The way I slow down the rate is quick hands away and rotate the hips forward (into the upper body catch position) before my knees start bending, then it's real easy to control how fast you come back up the slide - just bend the knees as slowly as necessary to get the rate you want. The drive is always about the same speed, so don't try to deliberately slow that down.

Drag factor setting doesn't make much difference, setting stroke rate is all in the recovery. Higher DF will slow down the drive slightly, but not significantly.

Still having a real tough time getting my stroke rate down.

This means you need to learn to row. Good strokes have a lot of work in each one, so force low ratings. The C2 technique video shows how it's done, and the wording is very accurate too:

The Rowing Stroke

The Catch

Arms are straight; head is neutral; shoulders are level and not hunched.
Upper body is leaning forward from the hips with the shoulders in front of the hips.
Shins are vertical, or as close to vertical as is comfortable for you. Shins should not move beyond perpendicular.
Heels may lift as needed.

The Drive

Start the drive by pressing with your legs, and then swing the back through the vertical position before finally adding the arm pull.
Hands move in a straight line to and from the flywheel.
Shoulders remain low and relaxed.

The Finish

Upper body is leaning back slightly, using good support from the core muscles.
Legs are extended and handle is held lightly below your ribs.
Shoulders should be low with wrists and grip relaxed. Wrists should be flat.

The Recovery

Extend your arms until they straighten before leaning from the hips towards the flywheel.
Once your hands have cleared your knees, allow your knees to bend and gradually slide the seat forward on the monorail.
For your next stroke, return to the catch position with shoulders relaxed and shins vertical.


The main giveaways of bad technique are lifting hands over knees (wrong recovery sequence) and bringing the seat up to the heels. This puts the legs in a weak position and causes a slow catch.

Try tying a rope round the rail at about 50cm from the stretcher. With shoulders well forward and a straight back you can still get near the chainguard and so pull a full length stroke. The pull sequence is then legs, swing, arms.

This style of rowing is extremely hard work and will cause you an immense amount of suffering. However the boat goes fast.

I got taught and brainwashed to use 135 for drag factor at all times. Some lightweights in the squad were allowed to use 125 but 135 had to be the drag for any score. This is meant to replicate the drag for a coxless 4.

I'm sure that the indoor championships and all official records have to be done at that drag too.

The drag at races and for record purposes is entirely a matter of personal preference, Simon.