Concept2 Forum

I have read in alot of thread that in low rated work you should be able to train with the same spi that at the faster pace.
Should i focus on this when training or should i just focus on rowing alot in UT1?

My last 2K was 7:38 236,2 watt. Its around 8,1 watt pr stroke and in 20r it would be 163 watt or 2:09,7.
Whats best to focus on to done this better. SPI, just low rated rowing at UT! HR or something else?

Im a geek for numbers. So i like this calculation

teddyDK wrote:I have read in alot of thread that in low rated work you should be able to train with the same spi that at the faster pace.
Should i focus on this when training or should i just focus on rowing alot in UT1?

My last 2K was 7:38 236,2 watt. Its around 8,1 watt pr stroke and in 20r it would be 163 watt or 2:09,7.
Whats best to focus on to done this better. SPI, just low rated rowing at UT! HR or something else?

Im a geek for numbers. So i like this calculation

Use your 2k wattage as a base for the zone instead of HR. UT1 should be 60-70% of the 2k wattage, so 142-165 watts, which would call for 17.5-20.4 spm at that SPI.

Bob S.

Bob S. wrote:

teddyDK wrote:I have read in alot of thread that in low rated work you should be able to train with the same spi that at the faster pace.
Should i focus on this when training or should i just focus on rowing alot in UT1?

My last 2K was 7:38 236,2 watt. Its around 8,1 watt pr stroke and in 20r it would be 163 watt or 2:09,7.
Whats best to focus on to done this better. SPI, just low rated rowing at UT! HR or something else?

Im a geek for numbers. So i like this calculation

Use your 2k wattage as a base for the zone instead of HR. UT1 should be 60-70% of the 2k wattage, so 142-165 watts, which would call for 17.5-20.4 spm at that SPI.

Bob S.

When should i then increase the pace?
And does the same thing work for ex in AT training. Fx 3 x 6' if i should hold the same SPI my pace should be around 1:58 and i cant do that.

Look at the DPS or distance per stroke, this is more relevant and its actually something that is recognized as a variable.

You cannot divide the average power on the monitor by the rating and gets Watts per stroke, its not that simple.The power is per second not per minute. Also its the average power so to take some simple numbers like 20spm, say 1 sec drive and 2 sec recovery and your rowing at 2:00.5 pace or 200W that means your drive is 600W of power or basically 600W of average power per stroke, the peak would be even higher because the power curve is not a perfect square wave.

You can now see why low rating rowing is so much harder for a given pace, your trying to produce much higher power peaks to obtain the same average power.

Carl Watts wrote:Look at the DPS or distance per stroke, this is more relevant and its actually something that is recognized as a variable.

You cannot divide the average power on the monitor by the rating and gets Watts per stroke, its not that simple.

It is not Watts per stroke, Carl, it is watt-minutes per stroke - the average amount of work done in each stroke. Of course, watt-minutes are not the commonly used work units, like joules or kilowatt-hours, but it is not an unreasonable term. Since a joule is a watt-second, a watt-minute is 60 joules. If you multiply the SPI by 60 sec/minute, it comes out in the more conventional work unit, joules. For an SPI of 10.0 it would be 600 joules of work done per average stroke.

teddyDK wrote:
When should i then increase the pace?
And does the same thing work for ex in AT training. Fx 3 x 6' if i should hold the same SPI my pace should be around 1:58 and i cant do that.

I don't understand where you get the 1:58. That would be 213.0 watts. The AT power based zone(as opposed to HR based) is 70-80% of the 2k base, which would be a range of 165-189 watts.

Bob S. wrote:

teddyDK wrote:
When should i then increase the pace?
And does the same thing work for ex in AT training. Fx 3 x 6' if i should hold the same SPI my pace should be around 1:58 and i cant do that.

I don't understand where you get the 1:58. That would be 213.0 watts. The AT power based zone(as opposed to HR based) is 70-80% of the 2k base, which would be a range of 165-189 watts.

Thanks.

Bob S. wrote:

Carl Watts wrote:Look at the DPS or distance per stroke, this is more relevant and its actually something that is recognized as a variable.

You cannot divide the average power on the monitor by the rating and gets Watts per stroke, its not that simple.

It is not Watts per stroke, Carl, it is watt-minutes per stroke - the average amount of work done in each stroke. Of course, watt-minutes are not the commonly used work units, like joules or kilowatt-hours, but it is not an unreasonable term. Since a joule is a watt-second, a watt-minute is 60 joules. If you multiply the SPI by 60 sec/minute, it comes out in the more conventional work unit, joules. For an SPI of 10.0 it would be 600 joules of work done per average stroke.

Yes okay but still useless information. Pretty much all you need is already on the monitor. If you were to add anything you would have the monitor read and log the ambient temperature and have a stroke counter so you can work out an accurate spm or rating. This is all that's really missing and plenty of cheaper rowers have this on their monitor.

Carl Watts wrote:stroke counter

ErgData has a stroke counter.

(Who knows, the next C2 may ship without a monitor: just Bluetooth and an ErgData upgrade )

gooseflight wrote: (Who knows, the next C2 may ship without a monitor: just Bluetooth and an ErgData upgrade )

That's unlikely since their primary market is gyms and the January new year resolution'er folks like things that tell them how many calories they're burning.

gooseflight wrote:

Carl Watts wrote:stroke counter

ErgData has a stroke counter.

(Who knows, the next C2 may ship without a monitor: just Bluetooth and an ErgData upgrade )

You should not have to buy ErgData just to get a stroke counter. Just about every cheap rower on the market has this in the monitor as standard, its the most basic function you need.Its a 5 second job for C2 to implement it in the firmware. With a graphics display the firmware should allow the display to be totally user configurable via a screen options menu. It looks like RowPro will have this first.

Yes I suggested a couple of years ago now you don't need a monitor anymore, just a Bluetooth pickup and your smart phone that simply runs the monitor as an App. Just recently however I appreciated the PM4 monitor with a logcard when RowPro fell over on me during a row so I had to upload the results from the LogCard. Fact is the monitor always works where as external devices using the likes of Bluetooth or third party Apps fall over from time to time.

There is "Cool" and there is "Reliable", they are seldom the same thing.

im not too bothered about a stroke counter - i could always export the row as a scv and run a script over it, or im pretty sure theres a few out tools out there that probably do it already for you.
unless theres a ctc event with 100 strokes -> best distance - i'm not sure how important this feature would be.
sure - its a nice to have. just i have never felt it necessary to find out -
an extra column on the row report, why not. not a selling feature i think, but...
a rough pace/distance/ spm calculation would give me a decent guesstemate, i guess that would be enough for my needs.

Citroen wrote: and the January new year resolution'er folks like things that tell them how many calories they're burning.

Haha so true!!!!!!!!!

Carl Watts wrote:

gooseflight wrote:

Carl Watts wrote:stroke counter

ErgData has a stroke counter.

(Who knows, the next C2 may ship without a monitor: just Bluetooth and an ErgData upgrade )

You should not have to buy ErgData just to get a stroke counter. Just about every cheap rower on the market has this in the monitor as standard, its the most basic function you need.Its a 5 second job for C2 to implement it in the firmware. With a graphics display the firmware should allow the display to be totally user configurable via a screen options menu. It looks like RowPro will have this first.

Yes I suggested a couple of years ago now you don't need a monitor anymore, just a Bluetooth pickup and your smart phone that simply runs the monitor as an App. Just recently however I appreciated the PM4 monitor with a logcard when RowPro fell over on me during a row so I had to upload the results from the LogCard. Fact is the monitor always works where as external devices using the likes of Bluetooth or third party Apps fall over from time to time.

There is "Cool" and there is "Reliable", they are seldom the same thing.

Just FYI ErgData is free.

If you have a PM5 it is simply a case of turning wireless on, starting the app and doing your workout. Can set stroke count on the main screen.

Citroen wrote:

gooseflight wrote: (Who knows, the next C2 may ship without a monitor: just Bluetooth and an ErgData upgrade )

That's unlikely since their primary market is gyms and the January new year resolution'er folks like things that tell them how many calories they're burning.

Good one