Concept2 Forum

Hi.
I completed my second 5k test this morning and wanted to get your opinion on the following:

First 5k was on September 1: total time 19:22, avg watt 223 and 26 avg stroke rate.
Second 5k was today: total time 19:22, avg output 223 watts and 29 avg stroke rate.

Given the fact that 2 out of 3 variables stayed the same, what does it say about my 5k?
Could it be that the erg is malfunctioning?

Misha

All that says to me is that you went at a higher rate but never produced any extra force on the machine to go with the higher stroke rate.

I doubt it's a problem with the machine. Unless it's gym one and needs a major clean

mishab wrote:Hi.
I completed my second 5k test this morning and wanted to get your opinion on the following:

First 5k was on September 1: total time 19:22, avg watt 223 and 26 avg stroke rate.
Second 5k was today: total time 19:22, avg output 223 watts and 29 avg stroke rate.

Given the fact that 2 out of 3 variables stayed the same, what does it say about my 5k?
Could it be that the erg is malfunctioning?

Misha

That's not 2 out of 3. The total time and the average wattage are not independent variables, as long as the distance is constant (both 5k in this case). The difference in stroke rate just means that you eased off a bit on the power per stroke at the higher rate, from 8.6 watt-minutes per stroke down to 7.7 w'/s.

Bob S. wrote:

mishab wrote:Hi.
I completed my second 5k test this morning and wanted to get your opinion on the following:

First 5k was on September 1: total time 19:22, avg watt 223 and 26 avg stroke rate.
Second 5k was today: total time 19:22, avg output 223 watts and 29 avg stroke rate.

Given the fact that 2 out of 3 variables stayed the same, what does it say about my 5k?
Could it be that the erg is malfunctioning?

Misha

That's not 2 out of 3. The total time and the average wattage are not independent variables, as long as the distance is constant (both 5k in this case). The difference in stroke rate just means that you eased off a bit on the power per stroke at the higher rate, from 8.6 watt-minutes per stroke down to 7.7 w'/s.

What Bob says ^^^ They are not independent.

Yes thats true too.

I also just wanted to add further, you were more efficient in the 1st attempt (lower stroke rate for same amount of work) Used up lot more energy higher rate on the 2nd for same amount of work!! Could say wasted energy.

You would have been better keeping same rate of the 1st but trying to push harder through the strokes for a faster time as less energy spent not rating too high.

Anth_F wrote:Yes thats true too.

I also just wanted to add further, you were more efficient in the 1st attempt (lower stroke rate for same amount of work) Used up lot more energy higher rate on the 2nd for same amount of work!! Could say wasted energy.

You would have been better keeping same rate of the 1st but trying to push harder through the strokes for a faster time as less energy spent not rating too high.

Another little added note. My right knee has been without cartilage for several years now, but I just learned that enough bone damage has been done since then that I had better get a replacement soon. My morning physical therapy routine includes a little 5 minute warmup and loosing up on the erg beforehand. For the last few years or so, I have been doing it at 12spm and 60 watts, to maintain 5 watt-minutes per stroke, which I regard as my normal work per stroke. After getting the bad news, I considered just quitting altogether until such time as I can get the surgery done and go through months of rehab. I finally decided to give a try with a weaker stroke at higher rate, maintaining the same intensity, 60w. So I did it at 20spm, i.e. using only 3w-m/s. That was definitely easier on my joints, but I was clearly breathing just a tad harder to go at 20spm as compared to 12spm. And, of course, there was the unmeasured additional energy penalty for going at a higher rate. Same total measured work, just as the OP had, but my cardiovascular system had to work a little harder to do it.

Bob S. wrote:

Anth_F wrote:Yes thats true too.

I also just wanted to add further, you were more efficient in the 1st attempt (lower stroke rate for same amount of work) Used up lot more energy higher rate on the 2nd for same amount of work!! Could say wasted energy.

You would have been better keeping same rate of the 1st but trying to push harder through the strokes for a faster time as less energy spent not rating too high.

Another little added note. My right knee has been without cartilage for several years now, but I just learned that enough bone damage has been done since then that I had better get a replacement soon. My morning physical therapy routine includes a little 5 minute warmup and loosing up on the erg beforehand. For the last few years or so, I have been doing it at 12spm and 60 watts, to maintain 5 watt-minutes per stroke, which I regard as my normal work per stroke. After getting the bad news, I considered just quitting altogether until such time as I can get the surgery done and go through months of rehab. I finally decided to give a try with a weaker stroke at higher rate, maintaining the same intensity, 60w. So I did it at 20spm, i.e. using only 3w-m/s. That was definitely easier on my joints, but I was clearly breathing just a tad harder to go at 20spm as compared to 12spm. And, of course, there was the unmeasured additional energy penalty for going at a higher rate. Same total measured work, just as the OP had, but my cardiovascular system had to work a little harder to do it.

Good on you for hanging in there through the injuries, Bob. That's commitment to the erg cause there!

I'm very glad you found a solution that allowed for you to not give up rowing, Bob.

And yes, lots of commitment for sure. But if you enjoying doing something enough, you're going to commit at all costs anyway before throwing in the towel because maybe you no longer can.

I guess you are thinking that your pace must increase in line with your stroke rate. The erg is not like a bicycle where revving faster in the same gear means you go faster.

To generalise, on the erg you can row the same pace at any combination of stroke rate (SPM) and drag factor (DF -- the lever setting). Your pace depends on how hard you pull (or more strictly push since rowing is more about legs than arms). The erg measures your watt output and converts it to pace. As you have reported, you rowed the same watts at 26 spm and 29 spm.

Others have already commented on the merits of rowing the same pace at lower SPM.