I hope this might be useful for anyone else who suffers from post nasal drip, or PND. This is a condition which causes the sinuses to produce too much mucus (sorry), which then drips down the back of the throat and results in excessive throat clearing and coughing. I have found over the last few years that it has put a huge damper on my Concept2 training, because the action of rowing seems to make it progressively worse, until I'm left continually clearing my throat and coughing my guts out. This is pretty debilitating and frustrating when you're trying to do a strenuous physical activity. I used to do 10,000m daily for weight loss, but then I had to decrease this to 5,000m, and most recently I can't even complete that without fits of coughing. It's often ok at first, for the first 1000m or so, but then it seems to progressively get worse. Strangely, I also find that I stop coughing as soon as I get off the machine. It's almost like it's the movement itself, or maybe the breathing heavily (air going over my inflamed sinuses) that makes it worse.
As an aside, I am not looking for remedies for PND here. I have done all the research, been to the doctors and I know all the usual solutions - nasal irrigation, sprays, drinking water, avoiding dairy, allergy shots (I'm getting them), etc. I've decided against the steroid sprays as they have warnings about possibly triggering glaucoma, and I don't want to do anything to risk my eyesight (my mom has that disease). As far as I can tell my PND seems to get better when I totally avoid all dairy (even ingredients), and also when I take care to drink more water than I would simply due to thirst. Anyway, like I said, I'm not looking for PND answers here, but rather to share something that I have just recently discovered, which is helping me finally get back into my Concept2:
Intervals!
I had a brainstorm about a week ago: If my PND gets worse with the longer distances, and gets better when I stop, then why not work with that, and just keep the distances shorter? And how would you do that, while still getting a good workout... well, intervals of course. And the breaks that are integral to intervals might also help my nose settle down.
First I tried the pyramid intervals suggested on the Concept2 site, i.e. 100, 200, 300, ... 1000, 900, ... 200, 100. However I found that around the first 800 mark, the PND started to kick in, badly, which made the following 900, 1000 and 900 really bad. I couldn't even finish the set.
So then I decided that if the condition gets worse later in the workout, with the longer distance, then why not try front loading the longer distance, so that later on it's shorter intervals. So after some experimentation, here's what I have programmed currently, with 1 minute rest between each:
500 x 2, 400 x 3, 300 x 4, 200 x 5, 150 x 4
Originally I had 100 x 6 as the final, because it fit the progression, but I found that 100m just isn't enough to be worth doing. By the time I get going, it's over. I don't like time-based intervals for some reason, I like it more when I can see the meters ticking down. Anyway, the PND is still bad, today I still had to stop once to cough my guts out, but at least with the breaks built in, I've been able to mostly complete the sets this last week. This is a HUGE progress for me, so I just thought I'd share.
Anybody else out there troubled by post nasal drip while rowing? I've often wondered if this is just me. It seems like such a weird thing to have to live with. I dread going to the movie theater these days, because I know at some point I'm going to start having to clear my throat and cough. Ugh.
Neil
Concept2 and Post Nasal Drip (PND)
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neilgunton
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Re: Concept2 and Post Nasal Drip (PND)
Neil,
You're not alone. I went through a heavy bout of this recently. Amoxicillin was prescribed for me and Musinex D (over the counter, but behind the pharmacist's stand. Took 3 prescripts to finally work. Still have flare ups while rowing/erging and occassional coughing at night. I think my latest bout was triggered by the spouse planting huge sunflowers. Once they died away and she removed them, the major symptoms eventually dissipated, of course the final medicine dosage was in play then too. Mine was so bad at times when sculling I had coughing fits that could be heard across the lake and would have to stop every 3-5 strokes until I finished coughing and sneezing and spitting up. Several times early on I was drained just rowing away from the dock and turning around. It was all I could do to row in and needed help carrying the boat back to the rack. In the gym, to the wrinkled looks of the spinners next to me, I coughedand gagged my way through 2-3, 5 and 10 minute interval sessions with 2-4 mintues rest, rowing 4 minutes at 18 or 20 then 1 minute at 22 and stairstepping up the next 4 minutes at 20 with 1 minute at 24, until I could do 30 minutes total erging. Spent a lot of time 18-20 range. When I could manage a couple of 20 minute sessions of Eddie Fletcher's 2K warmup with the 3-4, 30-45 second faster paces toned down to 24-26 rating, I shifted into my standby recovery program, the Pete's Plan Beginning rowing sessions. I'm back up to week 10. Still gasping at 26 and can't hold anything higher than 28 for more than 30 seconds, but at least I can do the longer sessions at 23/24 and haven't handled down on the intervals albeit none at any rocket pace or rating. I'm also back on the water able to row 2.5 loops around the lake without hacking.
So give it some time and continue working through the medications. And do erg as much as you're comfrotable with at any given time, but always attempt to push yourself through just one more set, even if you're paddling pressure wise. I understand your concerns with side affects, but talk to your doctor and get a better handle on the risk levels (proven and replicated in larger studies of humans or just a couple of lab rat sessions for FDA approval?). Get something that might be less risky, if possible. Here's to getting welll again.
ST
You're not alone. I went through a heavy bout of this recently. Amoxicillin was prescribed for me and Musinex D (over the counter, but behind the pharmacist's stand. Took 3 prescripts to finally work. Still have flare ups while rowing/erging and occassional coughing at night. I think my latest bout was triggered by the spouse planting huge sunflowers. Once they died away and she removed them, the major symptoms eventually dissipated, of course the final medicine dosage was in play then too. Mine was so bad at times when sculling I had coughing fits that could be heard across the lake and would have to stop every 3-5 strokes until I finished coughing and sneezing and spitting up. Several times early on I was drained just rowing away from the dock and turning around. It was all I could do to row in and needed help carrying the boat back to the rack. In the gym, to the wrinkled looks of the spinners next to me, I coughedand gagged my way through 2-3, 5 and 10 minute interval sessions with 2-4 mintues rest, rowing 4 minutes at 18 or 20 then 1 minute at 22 and stairstepping up the next 4 minutes at 20 with 1 minute at 24, until I could do 30 minutes total erging. Spent a lot of time 18-20 range. When I could manage a couple of 20 minute sessions of Eddie Fletcher's 2K warmup with the 3-4, 30-45 second faster paces toned down to 24-26 rating, I shifted into my standby recovery program, the Pete's Plan Beginning rowing sessions. I'm back up to week 10. Still gasping at 26 and can't hold anything higher than 28 for more than 30 seconds, but at least I can do the longer sessions at 23/24 and haven't handled down on the intervals albeit none at any rocket pace or rating. I'm also back on the water able to row 2.5 loops around the lake without hacking.
So give it some time and continue working through the medications. And do erg as much as you're comfrotable with at any given time, but always attempt to push yourself through just one more set, even if you're paddling pressure wise. I understand your concerns with side affects, but talk to your doctor and get a better handle on the risk levels (proven and replicated in larger studies of humans or just a couple of lab rat sessions for FDA approval?). Get something that might be less risky, if possible. Here's to getting welll again.
ST
M 64 76 kg
"Sit Down! Row Hard! Go Nowhere!"
"Sit Down! Row Hard! Go Nowhere!"
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neilgunton
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- Joined: April 28th, 2007, 5:27 pm
- Location: Albany, Oregon
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Re: Concept2 and Post Nasal Drip (PND)
Hi, thanks for the feedback. I often hear about people being prescribed antibiotics for PND, when it seems obvious that it's really an allergic reaction of some sort (for example you mentioned a possible correlation with sunflowers in your case). Strange.
Today the mucus was bad during my workout. It just keeps streaming down. It's worse when I forgot to drink extra water the day before. I think additional hydration makes the mucus less thick, which probably helps it to flow normally rather than get stuck at the back of the throat, which is the worst because it provokes the gag reflex.
By the way, once again my apologies for the topic. I hope nobody's eating while reading this...
Anyway, near the end of my workout today, I decided to test one of my theories, namely that increased air flow (due to heavy breathing) stimulates the already inflamed sinuses to kick into overdrive. This might explain why it seems to suddenly get better very quickly after I stop. So during one of the interval breaks I tore pieces off a tissue and stuffed them up my nostrils. It wasn't perfect, but it seemed to restrict the air flow. Then I did my last two intervals. It was much better! So maybe this is something else I can do. Or maybe it was just placebo effect, who knows. More experimentation needed.
So does anyone have any recommendation for good noseplugs that could be used during Concept2 workouts? Looking on Amazon there are clips for swimming, plugs for kayaking, and disposable ones for hockey nose bleeds. I'm not sure which style would be best. Any tips would be appreciated. Sorry if this is a bit "out there" from the usual Concept2 training discussion.
Neil
Today the mucus was bad during my workout. It just keeps streaming down. It's worse when I forgot to drink extra water the day before. I think additional hydration makes the mucus less thick, which probably helps it to flow normally rather than get stuck at the back of the throat, which is the worst because it provokes the gag reflex.
By the way, once again my apologies for the topic. I hope nobody's eating while reading this...
Anyway, near the end of my workout today, I decided to test one of my theories, namely that increased air flow (due to heavy breathing) stimulates the already inflamed sinuses to kick into overdrive. This might explain why it seems to suddenly get better very quickly after I stop. So during one of the interval breaks I tore pieces off a tissue and stuffed them up my nostrils. It wasn't perfect, but it seemed to restrict the air flow. Then I did my last two intervals. It was much better! So maybe this is something else I can do. Or maybe it was just placebo effect, who knows. More experimentation needed.
So does anyone have any recommendation for good noseplugs that could be used during Concept2 workouts? Looking on Amazon there are clips for swimming, plugs for kayaking, and disposable ones for hockey nose bleeds. I'm not sure which style would be best. Any tips would be appreciated. Sorry if this is a bit "out there" from the usual Concept2 training discussion.
Neil
Re: Concept2 and Post Nasal Drip (PND)
Thank you for sharing. My husband suffers from PND and this information will be beneficial to him. Our Concept2 rower gets here tomorrow and I want to make sure we get started on a great foot. Being aware of a possible severe PND reaction and knowing how to move around/through it is a huge help. Again thank you.
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neilgunton
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- Posts: 30
- Joined: April 28th, 2007, 5:27 pm
- Location: Albany, Oregon
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Re: Concept2 and Post Nasal Drip (PND)
I did my entire workout today with the makeshift tissue nose plugs, and it did seem to help. I can only assume that this is because my sinuses appear to be chronically inflamed due to allergies, and having the additional airflow over them while breathing heavily kicks them into overdrive. Other people may have different triggers or causes for their sinus issues, e.g. physical abnormalities in the nasal cavity, infections deep in the sinuses, etc. So I think it's important to realize that what may work for one person might not do anything for someone else (just read the reviews on Amazon of some of the sinus remedies that claim to help with PND, and you'll quickly see what I mean). We all just need to experiment to see what affects the symptoms.
I have ordered a couple of nose plug/clip products from Amazon - "Harmony Smiley's Nose Plugs", and "Mueller Nasal Plugs Package of 300" (I have no connection with either company). I'll report back on how these go. I'll probably end up cutting the cord off the first ones, as they are made for attaching to your helmet while kayaking.
Couple more random thoughts:
o The nose plugs took a little getting used to while rowing. At first there was a slight feeling of claustrophobia, probably due to the fact that my body wanted additional oxygen, and part of my airway was blocked. Perhaps as a result of this, today's session was about 10s slower per 500m than usual. That said, I'm not concerned about this, because right now setting speed records is farthest from my mind. I would be ecstatic just to be able to complete a session without the main limiting factor being my sinuses pumping mucus down the back of my throat.
o Doing a nasal rinse about 20 minutes before the session seems to help. I like the NeilMed (no connection to me!) squeeze bottles. I use distilled water, heat the bottle up for about 30 seconds in the microwave, then add the salt. The trick then is to shake the bottle enough so that all the salt is dissolved (hold it up to a light to see if any little crystals are left floating around). I initially used the little packets that come with the bottle, but am currently trying some pure Neti Pot Salt from Amazon. It seems to do much the same thing. The important action here is that it seems to loosen up the accumulated mucus in the sinuses a bit, so I can clear that before I start the workout.
o I have found something that some people might think is a little strange, but I'm a strange guy so what the heck: I visualize a Mucus Monster, who is trying to take possession of me and remake me in his image (and, being out of shape as a result of having my exercise curtailed as it has been, I am kind of starting to resemble a blob). So anyway, during the rowing on the Concept2, I do a little chant, with variations, in time with the strokes: "GET out of me, GET out of me, LEAVE me alone, LEAVE me alone", etc. This mantra has the capitalized words at the start of the push back with the legs. I am stroking way too fast, I know that (I do about 34-38 spm), but it seems to be what works for me, and it works well with the chant. I don't say it out loud, mind you, it's just in my head. And I try to focus on this monster, and kicking him out of my body. And you know what, it seems to work. Maybe it's the simple mental focus that it produces, like the Tibetan monks who chant to achieve a meditative state. Chanting is used in lots of different cultures and religions to produce a pure mental state. Another thing is that with PND, the constant clearing of the throat ends up becoming a bit of a habit, so there might be an aspect to this which is taking my mind off the throat clearing and simply focusing it elsewhere (in aggression against the monster). Well, whatever, it seems to work. It doesn't totally solve the problem, but when the PND gets bad around the middle of the workout, it does help. I also find that I need to work some actual aggression into the chant, it can't just be by rote, I have to actually feel angry at this mucus monster and focus completely on kicking it out of my body. Sometimes I also visualize myself surrounded in a golden light, with golden spikes defending me against the monster. I'm not really a religious or spiritual type, but I have read interesting things about the power of visualization, so anything's worth a try. The mind is a mysterious thing. Or, maybe there really is a mucus monster!
o I have taken to laying a regular cotton handkerchief on the floor beside the Concept2 while I am rowing. This serves as a useful place to spit out excess phlegm or saliva while rowing. Sometimes I find that the simple mechanical action of swallowing pulls down more mucus from the back of the throat, so I want to avoid swallowing. The handkerchief gives a nice large area that is absorbent and is easy to chuck in the laundry. Obviously this wouldn't work too well at a gym or other public place, I am doing this at home and I want to not spit on the carpet for obvious reasons. Spitting in a container just seems more gross somehow, you see it all lying there and it's just disgusting. The handkerchief absorbs a lot of it so it's not quite as bad. I think a towel might work just as well, if not better, but I have a ton of the handkerchiefs so it's easy to just use one a day.
o Most of the time, interval training is used for intensive workouts. Here, I am rather just using it as a device to work in some formalized breaks to allow myself to clear my throat occasionally. So I am not focused on speed or going all-out at this point; right now I am happy just to be able to row again without giving up prematurely due to hacking and coughing fits. Also, the shorter intervals of rowing helps from a psychological perspective: Knowing that you've only got a few hundred meters left at any one time helps me to keep going and ignore the impulse to start clearing my throat again (habit? not always - if I leave it long enough without clearing then I really do break down in a fit as the stuff starts to go down into my lungs, and what I cough up is definitely mucus).
Anyway, thanks again for reading, I know this is maybe one of the strangest threads in a while here but I'm just trying to honestly share what I'm going through in the hopes that it might be useful to someone else.
Neil
I have ordered a couple of nose plug/clip products from Amazon - "Harmony Smiley's Nose Plugs", and "Mueller Nasal Plugs Package of 300" (I have no connection with either company). I'll report back on how these go. I'll probably end up cutting the cord off the first ones, as they are made for attaching to your helmet while kayaking.
Couple more random thoughts:
o The nose plugs took a little getting used to while rowing. At first there was a slight feeling of claustrophobia, probably due to the fact that my body wanted additional oxygen, and part of my airway was blocked. Perhaps as a result of this, today's session was about 10s slower per 500m than usual. That said, I'm not concerned about this, because right now setting speed records is farthest from my mind. I would be ecstatic just to be able to complete a session without the main limiting factor being my sinuses pumping mucus down the back of my throat.
o Doing a nasal rinse about 20 minutes before the session seems to help. I like the NeilMed (no connection to me!) squeeze bottles. I use distilled water, heat the bottle up for about 30 seconds in the microwave, then add the salt. The trick then is to shake the bottle enough so that all the salt is dissolved (hold it up to a light to see if any little crystals are left floating around). I initially used the little packets that come with the bottle, but am currently trying some pure Neti Pot Salt from Amazon. It seems to do much the same thing. The important action here is that it seems to loosen up the accumulated mucus in the sinuses a bit, so I can clear that before I start the workout.
o I have found something that some people might think is a little strange, but I'm a strange guy so what the heck: I visualize a Mucus Monster, who is trying to take possession of me and remake me in his image (and, being out of shape as a result of having my exercise curtailed as it has been, I am kind of starting to resemble a blob). So anyway, during the rowing on the Concept2, I do a little chant, with variations, in time with the strokes: "GET out of me, GET out of me, LEAVE me alone, LEAVE me alone", etc. This mantra has the capitalized words at the start of the push back with the legs. I am stroking way too fast, I know that (I do about 34-38 spm), but it seems to be what works for me, and it works well with the chant. I don't say it out loud, mind you, it's just in my head. And I try to focus on this monster, and kicking him out of my body. And you know what, it seems to work. Maybe it's the simple mental focus that it produces, like the Tibetan monks who chant to achieve a meditative state. Chanting is used in lots of different cultures and religions to produce a pure mental state. Another thing is that with PND, the constant clearing of the throat ends up becoming a bit of a habit, so there might be an aspect to this which is taking my mind off the throat clearing and simply focusing it elsewhere (in aggression against the monster). Well, whatever, it seems to work. It doesn't totally solve the problem, but when the PND gets bad around the middle of the workout, it does help. I also find that I need to work some actual aggression into the chant, it can't just be by rote, I have to actually feel angry at this mucus monster and focus completely on kicking it out of my body. Sometimes I also visualize myself surrounded in a golden light, with golden spikes defending me against the monster. I'm not really a religious or spiritual type, but I have read interesting things about the power of visualization, so anything's worth a try. The mind is a mysterious thing. Or, maybe there really is a mucus monster!
o I have taken to laying a regular cotton handkerchief on the floor beside the Concept2 while I am rowing. This serves as a useful place to spit out excess phlegm or saliva while rowing. Sometimes I find that the simple mechanical action of swallowing pulls down more mucus from the back of the throat, so I want to avoid swallowing. The handkerchief gives a nice large area that is absorbent and is easy to chuck in the laundry. Obviously this wouldn't work too well at a gym or other public place, I am doing this at home and I want to not spit on the carpet for obvious reasons. Spitting in a container just seems more gross somehow, you see it all lying there and it's just disgusting. The handkerchief absorbs a lot of it so it's not quite as bad. I think a towel might work just as well, if not better, but I have a ton of the handkerchiefs so it's easy to just use one a day.
o Most of the time, interval training is used for intensive workouts. Here, I am rather just using it as a device to work in some formalized breaks to allow myself to clear my throat occasionally. So I am not focused on speed or going all-out at this point; right now I am happy just to be able to row again without giving up prematurely due to hacking and coughing fits. Also, the shorter intervals of rowing helps from a psychological perspective: Knowing that you've only got a few hundred meters left at any one time helps me to keep going and ignore the impulse to start clearing my throat again (habit? not always - if I leave it long enough without clearing then I really do break down in a fit as the stuff starts to go down into my lungs, and what I cough up is definitely mucus).
Anyway, thanks again for reading, I know this is maybe one of the strangest threads in a while here but I'm just trying to honestly share what I'm going through in the hopes that it might be useful to someone else.
Neil
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neilgunton
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- Joined: April 28th, 2007, 5:27 pm
- Location: Albany, Oregon
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Re: Concept2 and Post Nasal Drip (PND)
Quick update: I got the "Harmony Smiley's Nose Plugs" from Amazon over the weekend, and decided to try them out on my Concept2 workout today. The packaging didn't have any instructions on how the clip was supposed to be used - over the nostrils, or inserted into them and hanging down like a nose ring, or even which way round (one side of the pads is a slightly different shape than the other). Eventually I decided on the "clamp on outside" method, and I think this is probably how they are supposed to be used. Looking at the thing, the pads appear to be just that - pads, rather than plugs. But they could be used as plugs too, I think I saw one review on Amazon talk about that. I also cut off the cord, since I'm not kayaking with a helmet. The metal bridge bends quite easily to fit your nose, and I found that it did seem to close off my nostrils almost completely.
I decided to take a chance and try a 5,000m - something I haven't even been able to complete of late due to the throat clearing that would get progressively worse during the longer workouts. I found that it did seem to help - in fact, I only had a couple of throat clearings during the session, and they were not such that I had to stop. The main side effects were twofold: First, I noticed that my mouth was a lot drier, probably because more air was being passed through that passageway (now that the nose is closed off). Second, I found that I wanted to breath more heavily, probably also due to the restricted airway.
So, I guess my theory about air flow over the inflamed and sensitized sinuses might be correct, then.
That restricted airway thing got me thinking: If it's effectively cutting down on your oxygen supply, then mightn't the nose clip be a way to do a poor man's version of high altitude training? I mean, same thing, you're just reducing the amount of oxygen available to your lungs. So you breathe more heavily to compensate, which as you train, your body gets used to. Then when you remove the clip, suddenly your body has a lot more oxygen available. I don't know, just a thought.
Anyway, long story short, the nose clip definitely seemed to reduce the post nasal drip so I could complete the 5,000 session. I guess next I need to really go out there and see if I can do a 10,000m, something that has been beyond my reach for a long while now.
Hope this is useful to anyone else who suffers from this insanely stupid and annoying malady.
Neil
I decided to take a chance and try a 5,000m - something I haven't even been able to complete of late due to the throat clearing that would get progressively worse during the longer workouts. I found that it did seem to help - in fact, I only had a couple of throat clearings during the session, and they were not such that I had to stop. The main side effects were twofold: First, I noticed that my mouth was a lot drier, probably because more air was being passed through that passageway (now that the nose is closed off). Second, I found that I wanted to breath more heavily, probably also due to the restricted airway.
So, I guess my theory about air flow over the inflamed and sensitized sinuses might be correct, then.
That restricted airway thing got me thinking: If it's effectively cutting down on your oxygen supply, then mightn't the nose clip be a way to do a poor man's version of high altitude training? I mean, same thing, you're just reducing the amount of oxygen available to your lungs. So you breathe more heavily to compensate, which as you train, your body gets used to. Then when you remove the clip, suddenly your body has a lot more oxygen available. I don't know, just a thought.
Anyway, long story short, the nose clip definitely seemed to reduce the post nasal drip so I could complete the 5,000 session. I guess next I need to really go out there and see if I can do a 10,000m, something that has been beyond my reach for a long while now.
Hope this is useful to anyone else who suffers from this insanely stupid and annoying malady.
Neil
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neilgunton
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- Joined: April 28th, 2007, 5:27 pm
- Location: Albany, Oregon
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Re: Concept2 and Post Nasal Drip (PND)
Ok, this risks turning into a blog... sorry about that, I won't post on a regular basis. I just wanted to say that today I completed my first 10,000m in a long while! This is due entirely, I believe, to the use of the nose clip. There was a downside, which was that whenever I wiped sweat off my face, it tended to dislodge the clip, which made it take a bit longer before I was able to get back into the groove again. But that really didn't matter - I'm not at all concerned about times here, I'm just ecstatic to be able to complete the thing. There were some throat clearings, but nothing like before.
Obviously I would prefer to be able to just row without any stupid nose clip, but it does seem to help as a workaround for this PND.
The only reasons I can come up with for it helping are either a) placebo effect (I know I have something on my nose that should help, so it does), or b) by restricting the air flow over inflamed, sensitive sinuses, it prevents the irritation that kicks mucus production into overdrive. I'm going to go with (b) for now, since I have tried other things over time to help with this PND, and if placebo effect was going to come into it then I think it would have done so by now.
Not trying to "plug" a product here (haha), but the Harmony Smiley's Nose Plug seems to be quite good. It is comfortable on the nose, and I think it's different from other clips because the bridge is made of metal, which you bend to fit your nose. Thus you can make it as snug or as loose as you like. Mind you I haven't tried any other plugs or clips, so take that for what it's worth. Also I did cut the cord off, no point to that at all unless you're kayaking.
I'll let this go now unless anyone comes back with questions. Thanks for reading,
Neil
Obviously I would prefer to be able to just row without any stupid nose clip, but it does seem to help as a workaround for this PND.
The only reasons I can come up with for it helping are either a) placebo effect (I know I have something on my nose that should help, so it does), or b) by restricting the air flow over inflamed, sensitive sinuses, it prevents the irritation that kicks mucus production into overdrive. I'm going to go with (b) for now, since I have tried other things over time to help with this PND, and if placebo effect was going to come into it then I think it would have done so by now.
Not trying to "plug" a product here (haha), but the Harmony Smiley's Nose Plug seems to be quite good. It is comfortable on the nose, and I think it's different from other clips because the bridge is made of metal, which you bend to fit your nose. Thus you can make it as snug or as loose as you like. Mind you I haven't tried any other plugs or clips, so take that for what it's worth. Also I did cut the cord off, no point to that at all unless you're kayaking.
I'll let this go now unless anyone comes back with questions. Thanks for reading,
Neil