Concept2 Forum

I am 6'6" tall, 262 pounds, 46 years old. I have rowed 113,500 meters in the last two weeks... on my way to a million meters, so I can get that t-shirt!

Please critique my form and technique
.

Looks to me like I'm rolling a bit far forward with the shins past vertical, and I'm lifting my hands too high. What else?

Thanks!
--Tarver

Why the long pause at backstops?

Get your hands away quickly as you start the recovery of the stroke. Should be a nice continuous fluid motion with no pauses. It's legs-body-arms-body-legs rinse and repeat.

In the drive, your elbows are starting to bend before your legs are straight. It is hard to see it in motion, but by pausing the video in the middle of the drive, it can be seen that both are bent at the same time.

Yes, your knees are going past vertical, also your forward body swing is short. Body swing to the back is about right and the hand level looks OK to me - ending just about at the thorax.

Bob S.

Thanks, I'll work on those things.

You don,t rock over enough, that is alo the reason you go beyond your knees that much, try to lean over 10 degrees at the start of the stroke, you know it up straight. Your belly could be in the way
Your hands are plenty fast enough, you being 6.6 make the movements a bit slower. In summary, be a bit more active with your upperbody. Its now only legs and arms.

All in all there is not really anything wrong with your rowing. Everyone is going to vary some. You are going pretty slowly in the video. When you go that slow, every phase of the rowing cycle sticks out and is subject to criticism. How would you look at 35 Strokes per Minute. Also, I do not sense that there is a whole lot of leg drive going on. I suppose I'm saying that rowing videos that show one taking it pretty easy are not all that helpful - at least to me. How do you look when really trying to accomplish something? Then things like transfer of power and inefficiences will be important. Are you really driving. Are you recovering sufficiently to be ready to drive again. Is your leg drive, back lean, and arm pull in sync. Are you getting the most bang for the buck?

Of course, I'm sure you know that good rowers are pretty lean and mean. You have the height for a long pull - a plus in rowing. But I'm sure the weight is a factor in not having really good aerobic endurance. In fact, I would say that unless one's rowing style is really atrocious - which yours is not - that fitness is a far greater factor in being a good rower. Just remember that your performance is the proof of what you do. Really one figure says it all: pace/500m. Is it consistent and does it drop as the weeks of training go by. Also look at the force curve screen. It needs to be humped and smooth. In any event, I would not submit a video just because I would not want to be nitpicked.

Thank you for the further feedback.

Yes, by belly is definitely in the way. My BMI is over 30, which makes me "obese." Full stop. I am told I carry it well, etc., but that doesn't change the ratios or the girth. I own this, and here I am, doing something about it.

I have just finished two weeks of rowing, 113,500m in a total time of 8:26:17.9 in 10 sessions, which yields a global overall average pace of 2:13.8/500m, all in the 22-24 SPM range. This is how I have been rowing, not just going slow for show.

When my strokes go up over about 25, it starts feeling rushed and frantic; I have set the drag factor at 140 (had to clean the dust off some of the ergs at the YMCA to get it to go there!) in order to get a good long hard pull. I know that many experienced hands here recommend a lower DF, but also that "big guys" tend to prefer a higher DF and a harder pull simply because the bulk and the muscle are there, so why not use it? I am still looking for what's true for me, trying not to be too "special" -- beyond the fact that I happen to be quite big.

One thing I could try is easing down the drag factor (130? 120?) and easing up the stroke rate (26?) and trying to be a bit more "fluid" at the end of the drive. The pause at the end of my drive -- such as it is -- is my attempt to rest between strokes.

I am also aware of not using my legs as much as I could. When I kick off hard as if trying to stand up on the footrests, the projected meters spike by 1000 with no other apparent increase in effort... beyond a large oxygen draw that appears on the HRM moments later and doesn't feel sustainable. I will try to ease more of that into my usual stroke -- there is indeed room for improvement here.

I will keep an eye on the pace, and look out for any drop "as the weeks of training go by". I have also introduced a strength workout (weights, pushups, a few machines, etc.) every other day and quite frankly I am a bit sore and also need to remain mindful of not overdoing it.

140 is not high and every drag is fine if you can pull it.

The pace, rate and you height combination is not strong. For the paces you are going (500m time) you rate could even be lower.
re Weights, you could replace some weighst sessions with "speedsessions"on the erg. That will build you strenght in the legs and back. For you upperbodypushing mucle you need to do soem extra work. Those don't do much on the erg.

Speedsessions could be something like 10 1min on/ 1 min rest or 8 x 500 1 min rest. or whatever. But between 3 and 5 k is a nice total. You should do a good warm and cool down on top of that. You can set session like those via the interval option.
For pace do the on feel, start out not to fast and over time do them faster.

For weightlos only doing long slow session is not the best way to go. Some faster sessions yield better results. Plus diet is by far the number one. Eat enough but drop the rubbish.

You have a good build for the erg, no doubt you can improve a lot still and improve your health and fitness. keep at it

You keep rowing 60K a week, lbs will drop.

As a beginner you are demonstrating a fundamental truth in rowing. Strength of pull is a tradeoff with rate of pull. As you say, your rate of pull has to do with need for rest after a relatively strong pull - that is, fitness level. A lot of people on this forum advocate rowing really slowly, even much slower than are you. But they are trying to improve strength. However, that is not some maximum way to row. When they speed up to try for time, the pull must diminish.

I suspect you are plenty strong enough, but need to improve fitness. The damper setting/drag factor filters in here. The higher the drag factor, the more the flywheel slows down and a stronger pull is needed to get it back up to speed. I can see you rowing at more like 125 drag factor, requiring less strength of pull, but picking up the stroke rate to around 30 SPM - or at least for periods within a rowing session. There is nothing wrong with doing 25 SPM for 500m and 30 SPM for the next. I think your fitness will improve more rapidly.

I think the rushed and frantic thing just has to do with fitness. Guys setting world records row consistently in the 30's and even low 40's. They are not rushed and frantic. Their SPM is, once again, a tradeoff with stength of pull. Every one has to determine where that tradeoff point is. I'm not suggesting that you jump to 35 SPM. Just experiment with lower drag factor and somewhat faster SPM.

BTW, I thought I would throw in some rough calorie expenditure numbers, subject to revision by the true fanatics on this site.
I figure you are burning around 100 cals per 1000m. For 60K a week that is 6000 cals or 1.7 lbs. If you replenish only half of those calories, that would result in a ten lb loss in 12 weeks. But stand by for the mathematicians to weigh in.

Cyclingman1 wrote:Strength of pull is a tradeoff with rate of pull. As you say, your rate of pull has to do with need for rest after a relatively strong pull - that is, fitness level. A lot of people on this forum advocate rowing really slowly, even slower than are you. But they are trying to improve strength. However, that is not some maximum way to row. When they speed up to try for time, the pull must diminish.

Rowing isn't about pulling, rowing is about pushing with the legs (with the rest of your body rigid so you transfer the drive to the handle/chain). There's a small amount of pull at the end of the stroke.

Good point, however, I suspect you knew what I meant: the drive phase. It feels like pulling from the start even though the legs are supplying most of the power initially. Any comments on the other suggestions to the OP?

Cyclingman1 wrote:Good point, however, I suspect you knew what I meant: the drive phase. It feels like pulling from the start even though the legs are supplying most of the power initially. Any comments on the other suggestions to the OP?

What you suggest is fine, but is not rowing, high spm and low speed is like cycling, yes you will improve your endurance but you won't build much strenght.

Pushing/pulling, whats in a name. I think we pull plenty with our back, all legpushing should be countered by the back to get the energy in the handle. That may be a static event mostly but I sure would call that pulling.

I don't think that higher SPM implies low speed. Higher SPM allows one to pull/push less hard more often which in my case always results in more speed. I cannot see myself rowing 1:40/500m at 16 SPM for any amount of time. But I do it (row <= 1Km) all the time at 32 SPM.

Please, recall the context of my suggestion to the OP. Aerobic fitness, IMO, should emphasized over strength in his case at this point in using a rower. I am most definitely not talking about "spinning," like on a bike, which is a leisurely ride to recuperate from hard rides with no high gears.

Cyclingman1 wrote:I don't think that higher SPM implies low speed. Higher SPM allows one to pull/push less hard more often which in my case always results in more speed. I cannot see myself rowing 1:40/500m at 16 SPM for any amount of time. But I do it all the time at 32 SPM.

Per stroke it does. Say you pull 2.00 rate 20, or like you do 2.00 rate 30. At rate 30 per stroke you really have to pull very gentle.
rate 16 pace 1.40 is very extreme. That is only done as powertraining.

A standard test done by otw rower is 30/20 30 min at rate 20. To pull 1.40 or less aka 9k is more or less elite. 8k is ok for a solid amateur.

All the time 1.40? that means you never long distances. You reap the rewards of your cycling carreer and pon the bike I don,t think yo do short interval work. So you do train longer and slower but just not on ther erg.

I offer my comments/suggestions to the OP. With a fifty year athletic background, I have some idea about how to train. If the OP sees merit in the suggestions, so be it. If not, that is fine too.

"A standard test done by otw rower is 30/20 30 min at rate 20." I have no concept of those parameters. It's nothing that I do. My comments apply to indoor rowing. I have not a clue about OTW rowing, nor is it necessary for indoor rowing. Two different animals.