Newbie - drag factor q

[Pimbley]

Complete novice here.

I see that there is a lot of discussion of pace/500m and similar.

But, I don't understand how the drag factor is factored in? So, if I'm 2:00mins for 500m at drag 130 is that better than 1:50mins for 500m at drag 100?

Thx!

Pimbley

[Bob S.]

Complete novice here.

I see that there is a lot of discussion of pace/500m and similar.

But, I don't understand how the drag factor is factored in? So, if I'm 2:00mins for 500m at drag 130 is that better than 1:50mins for 500m at drag 100?

Thx!

Pimbley

1:50 is far better than 2:00 and the drag factor has nothing to do with it.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

1:50 is far better than 2:00 and the drag factor has nothing to do with it.

Bob S.

To further elaborate, check out these sites:

Damper Setting & Workout Intensity:

http://www.concept2.com/us/training/bas ... ensity.asp


Understanding Drag Factor:

http://www.concept2.com/us/training/adv ... factor.asp

[Pimbley]

Thx Bob,

Read the sites but I guess I'm still not getting it.

Feels a lot harder to row at 200 drag than at 100?

Anyhoo, I shall forget the math and just stick to getting better/fitter.

Pimbley

[Citroen]

Read this: http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38 is explains all the funny jargon used on here.

[Pimbley]

Thx Citroen,

so, Drag Factor is "a normalized measure of the actual resistance"

So higher Drag Factor = more resistance

and so a 2:00 Min 500 at DF 200 is "harder" than a 2:00 min 500 at DF 100 (takes more energy). DF is relevant.

and so a 2:05 Min 500 at DF 200 is still substantially "better" than a 2:00 min 500 at DF 100

and so, any 500M time needs the DF to "qualify" it ?

[Bob S.]

Thx Citroen,

so, Drag Factor is "a normalized measure of the actual resistance"

So higher Drag Factor = more resistance

and so a 2:00 Min 500 at DF 200 is "harder" than a 2:00 min 500 at DF 100 (takes more energy). DF is relevant.

and so a 2:05 Min 500 at DF 200 is still substantially "better" than a 2:00 min 500 at DF 100

and so, any 500M time needs the DF to "qualify" it ?

NO

The monitor calculates the energy expended in watts and the pace is based on the wattage. Number of watts equals 2.8 time the inverse cube of the pace. So the energy expended at a pace of 2:00/500m is 202.5 watts and it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference what the drag is. The monitor takes the drag into account.

Bob S.

[hjs]

When you bike 20 miles an hour at low gear and the next day bike at high gear again 20 miles. What day do you go the fastest?

That is the question you are asking.

So 1.59 at drag 100 is better than 2.00 at drag 200.

[Pimbley]

Thx guys.

Ok. Think I've finally got it. Thx for taking the time.

It is harder to row at higher drag, but the PM is smart enough to display the right pace.

[Citroen]

It is harder to row at higher drag, but the PM is smart enough to display the right pace.

Remember the PM2 / PM3 / PM4 is not connected to the damper lever. The only connection is the magnets on the flywheel generating a small voltage in the sensor coil. All of the pace calculation is based on using that tacho signal to calculate how much energy is being dissipated by the flywheel. That gives the watts and the strokes/min (because the performance monitor can see the start of each new stroke by looking at the edges of the waveform from the tacho). The complex physics is documented at http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/rowing/physics/ergometer.html

[kayakr]

Maybe damper setting could be described as using longer or shorter oars, rather than the bike analogy?
Long oars = high damper = more perceived force, but not necessarily more force "delivered" to the water.

[Hansink]

...more perceived force, but not necessarily more force...

I'm no expert but I question if this makes sense, or just how it makes sense. Although I do like the analogy of long and short oars.

[hjs]

Maybe damper setting could be described as using longer or shorter oars, rather than the bike analogy?
Long oars = high damper = more perceived force, but not necessarily more force "delivered" to the water.

High drag = slow boat, the water is running slowly, easy to catch
Low drag = fast boat, the water runs fast under the hull, so harder to catch

[Pimbley]

So can I ask,

To do a 1:30 500M, what kind of drag do some of you out there use, and what stroke rate.

I'm trying to picture what it takes to get to 1:28. I imagine too low of a df would mean the stroke rate was really high. Too high.

And, after a 1:30 are you totally spent?

Thx!

[gregsmith01748]

For me, I think I used a DF of about 150 for a 500 and a Stroke rate of around 40.

Here is my write up of my best effort: http://concept2.co.uk/forum/blog.php?u=11746&b=83162