Concept2 Forum

Hey guys,
I have my second season of high school spring rowing coming up late February, and I was wondering how I should further focus my winter training. As of yet I have been doing stronglifts 5x5 in addition to erging 3-5 days a week (ranging from steady state, to intervals and the occasional 2k test). But as the weights get heavier it's rather hard on the legs. and the two, rowing to get ready for spring and putting on mass before spring, are starting to seem like conflicting goals. So which should I focus on more, the rowing or the weight gain? And your opinions on the weight workout? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

Your young, so hit the weights and bulk up and get stronger. Make sure that your building up the same muscles that you use in rowing. Rowing technique can always be worked on during early spring when you hit the water. Don't be fooled into believing that erging will help your technique because it won't(unless your using a dynamic erg). You can always get your cardio base from other more interesting forms of excercise. Mix it up. Don't burn out at your age by using dull repetitive forms of excercise equipment such as the erg. This being an erg website will however get you a lot of replies biased towards the erg though.

Thank you so much. So just go on the erg every once and a while? I wanna have an idea of my 2k time and possibly get it lower.

No no no no no. Lift at most 2 times a week and erg 6 times a week. If you are trying to get recruited and be successful you need to put in miles on the erg. Lifting does not really help you out, we need to be fast on the erg and the water, not be able to lift weights like football players. Lifting should only be used as supplement. It is more fun, but in reality erging is more productive.

jcage218 wrote:No no no no no. Lift at most 2 times a week and erg 6 times a week. If you are trying to get recruited and be successful you need to put in miles on the erg. Lifting does not really help you out, we need to be fast on the erg and the water, not be able to lift weights like football players. Lifting should only be used as supplement. It is more fun, but in reality erging is more productive.

That's one of the reasons why the USA will never be one of the top rowing nations. You still have an erg mentality and place far too much emphasis on the erg. You don't need to spend hours and hours on the erg to be succesful at crew selection time or in rowing generally.

I'm not suggesting to lift every day and do nothing else. Over the years gone by some of Australia's top rowers came back from the Olympics and World Championship regattas with medals with only a small amount of their pre- championship preparation on the erg. They involved other excersises such as cycling, surfing, pilates etc. instead of erging. If your young then building a strong powerful body is very important which will provide other sporting options if you don't make crew.

US "not one of the top rowing nations"? Are you kidding me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowing_at_ ... edal_table

As for your winter training, if your HS coach has a training program you probably ought to be doing that as a first order of business. If s/he doesn't, you might consider asking for guidance. Some sanctioning organizations don't allow direct coaching in the off season but some do. If your area does I think it's to your advantage to work with your coach. S/he will be in a better position to train you purposefully than anyone here.

From personal experience, SL 5x5 is a good accompaniment to rowing. Just make sure you do your intense sessions on the same days you lift weights, and save the off days for easier, recovery rows etc, otherwise the muscles will never repair and no progress will be made. Personally I believe to get better at OTW rowing you have to row OTW. I would say for base fitness, other forms of exercise are fine (IT1/UT2) such as biking especially as it uses similar muscles, but for more intense stuff, the erg or OTW is better, the fitness from different disciplines isnt directly transferrable. I know i can certainly put down a better performance at lower HR on the erg than the bike/ running.

KC_23, I am a High School Coach. You mention that you are in your second season of High School Rowing. Are you lifting because your coach asked you to do so? Is your coach aware that you are lifting? More importantly, did you ask your doctor first if you were physically ready to lift? I don't know if you are male or female, but it has been my experience that not all young people are at the same stage of physical development, in other words, not everyone is read to lift at the same time.

Some of my team lifts, but not all. We also coordinate the days they lift in conjunction with the training I have scheduled for them.

As you can see from all the responses that you have received ,there are varying opinions on the matter. If I were your coach, I would want to know that you are lifting;and that your doctor cleared you to do so.

Good luck with your training!

Wow, a big thanks to all of you for your opinions. I am a male, and yes, my doctor has cleared me for weight training. My coach doesn't have a specific workout for us to follow over the winter. I think I'll ask him to see what his opinion is, which I probably should've done earlier. But once again thank you all, I'll be sure to take all this great advice into consideration.

NavigationHazard wrote:US "not one of the top rowing nations"? Are you kidding me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowing_at_ ... edal_table

Come on Nav, don't try and muddy the waters. Your only as good as your last row. The mens program didn't even pick up a medal at the last Worlds in Bled, Slovenia. Refer medal tally below:

http://www.worldrowing.com/uploads/rank ... ndings.pdf

Rockin Roland wrote:

NavigationHazard wrote:US "not one of the top rowing nations"? Are you kidding me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowing_at_ ... edal_table

Come on Nav, don't try and muddy the waters. Your only as good as your last row. The mens program didn't even pick up a medal at the last Worlds in Bled, Slovenia. Refer medal tally below:

http://www.worldrowing.com/uploads/rank ... ndings.pdf

With an Aussie coach.... And you just got done heralding the Austrailian system in your last post. Hmm...

Stephen Seiler (Masters in Exercise Science, PhD in Kinesiology) said "A current perspective on the weight training issue is, that the very best strength training for rowing happens in the boat or on the erg while rowing!"

I can't find his website but I did find what I think is most of the content here:
http://global-rowing-service.com/html/s ... ning_.html
It's possible this is dated information that he has revised.

At the very bottom of that page he does say "My opinion is that the young, or new rower can benefit from a general weight-room based strength-training program of the type outline above. However, the already well trained rower probably has little to gain..."

I do not like some of his suggestions on that page for "Strength Training on the Ergometer", they sound like they may give you a sore back.

You could look into combing some intervals and more long slow http://www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm checkout The Pete Plan.

I think there was another exercise physiologist with a site that covered rowing, plus cycling and running. I can't seem to find the site, he said similar things.

Rockin Roland wrote:

jcage218 wrote:No no no no no. Lift at most 2 times a week and erg 6 times a week. If you are trying to get recruited and be successful you need to put in miles on the erg. Lifting does not really help you out, we need to be fast on the erg and the water, not be able to lift weights like football players. Lifting should only be used as supplement. It is more fun, but in reality erging is more productive.

That's one of the reasons why the USA will never be one of the top rowing nations. You still have an erg mentality and place far too much emphasis on the erg. You don't need to spend hours and hours on the erg to be succesful at crew selection time or in rowing generally.

I'm not suggesting to lift every day and do nothing else. Over the years gone by some of Australia's top rowers came back from the Olympics and World Championship regattas with medals with only a small amount of their pre- championship preparation on the erg. They involved other excersises such as cycling, surfing, pilates etc. instead of erging. If your young then building a strong powerful body is very important which will provide other sporting options if you don't make crew.

The erg is a huge component of many several programs, The USA is not as bad as you make it out to be, especially considering the amount of funding we get. I actually think we do indeed put to much emphasis on the erg, like selection for boats should have no influence from your erg score, whoever moves the boat fastest moves the boat fastest. That being said it is THE best fitness building exercise for rowing other then of course rowing. I just said don't lift 7 days a week, 2-3 is Plenty, and you should be erging on every day other then rest with SOME cross training to prevent injury( assuming to cold to row on water).

carlb: where do you connect Seiler to the quote you give? If you look at the bottom of the webpage you link to, the author appears to be Joern Grosskopf (coach at St. George's RC in NSW, Australia in the mid-2000s, although the web page gives a Hamburg Germany contact address).

State of the art review actually is Lawson et al., Strength Testing and Training of Rowers: A Review, Sports Medicine:
1 May 2011 - Volume 41 - Issue 5 - pp 413-432:

In the quest to maximize average propulsive stroke impulses over 2000-m racing, testing and training of various strength parameters have been incorporated into the physical conditioning plans of rowers. Thus, the purpose of this review was 2-fold: to identify strength tests that were reliable and valid correlates (predictors) of rowing performance; and, to establish the benefits gained when strength training was integrated into the physical preparation plans of rowers. The reliability of maximal strength and power tests involving leg extension (e.g. leg pressing) and arm pulling (e.g. prone bench pull) was high (intra-class correlations 0.82–0.99), revealing that elite rowers were significantly stronger than their less competitive peers. The greater strength of elite rowers was in part attributed to the correlation between strength and greater lean body mass (r = 0.57–0.63). Dynamic lower body strength tests that determined the maximal external load for a one-repetition maximum (1RM) leg press (kg), isokinetic leg extension peak force (N) or leg press peak power (W) proved to be moderately to strongly associated with 2000-m ergometer times (r = −0.54 to −0.68; p < 0.05). Repetition tests that assess muscular or strength endurance by quantifying the number of repetitions accrued at a fixed percentage of the strength maximum (e.g. 50–70% 1RM leg press) or set absolute load (e.g. 40 kg prone bench pulls) were less reliable and more time consuming when compared with briefer maximal strength tests. Only leg press repetition tests were correlated with 2000-m ergometer times (e.g. r = −0.67; p < 0.05). However, these tests differentiate training experience and muscle morphology, in that those individuals with greater training experience and/or proportions of slow twitch fibres performed more repetitions. Muscle balance ratios derived from strength data (e.g. hamstring-quadriceps ratio <45% or knee extensor-elbow flexor ratio around 4.2 ± 0.22 to 1) appeared useful in the pathological assessment of low back pain or rib injury history associated with rowing. While strength partially explained variances in 2000-m ergometer performance, concurrent endurance training may be counterproductive to strength development over the shorter term (i.e. <12 weeks). Therefore, prioritization of strength training within the sequence of training units should be considered, particularly over the non-competition phase (e.g. 2–6 sets × 4–12 repetitions, three sessions a week). Maximal strength was sustained when infrequent (e.g. one or two sessions a week) but intense (e.g. 73–79% of maximum) strength training units were scheduled; however, it was unclear whether training adaptations should emphasize maximal strength, endurance or power in order to enhance performance during the competition phase. Additionally, specific on-water strength training practices such as towing ropes had not been reported. Further research should examine the on-water benefits associated with various strength training protocols, in the context of the training phase, weight division, experience and level of rower, if limitations to the reliability and precision of performance data (e.g. 2000-m time or rank) can be controlled. In conclusion, while positive ergometer time-trial benefits of clinical and practical significance were reported with strength training, a lack of statistical significance was noted, primarily due to an absence of quality long-term controlled experimental research designs.