How's my form?

[btb1490]

Brand new to rowing, just a few weeks so far, thanks to a long term running injury. I like it, and am thinking about training for some competitions. I've been trying to follow the guidelines on form from the videos posted on the concept2 website, and was hoping to get some feedback from people here on what it looks like I may need work on.

Also, using the graph on the monitor that shows your power output, what should that look like? Mine has a sharp upward spike at the beginning, then drops rather quickly before kind of slowly dropping off to the end. Something tells me that isn't ideal, but I really don't know.

Thanks in advance!

[gregsmith01748]

I don't see any obvious problems with your form, but there are others on the forum who are more discerning than I am.

As for the force curve, what you want is a sharp attack and then a rounded plateau then a drop off. You get it by continuing to accelerate through the whole drive. It takes some experimentation, watching the force curve, but you can see it and feel it when you are driving through the whole stroke.

There are a couple of things you can do to practice getting good strokes. The first is to try to do some low stroke rate rowing. What you do here is to consciously slow down your strokes per minute (to 16-18) and try to take very strong, smooth strokes, with a long smooth recovery. You watch the monitor, and without increasing your spm, try to drive your pace faster. Then, once you have the feel of a powerful stroke at those low rates, you can push the rate back up and try to maintain the same form on the drive. The only difference is how long you take for the recovery.

At 16 spm, your whole stroke is like a 4 count, with the drive on the first beat, and the recovery on 2,3,4. At 20 spm, it's a waltz (drive,2,3,drive,2,3...).

Have you done any set pieces? If you can share you time for a set distance row, like a 2k, I can suggest paces for these low rate exercises.

[bobkwan2007]

Your form looks pretty sound, at least to my eye. But as Greg writes, there are others here who've been rowing for many more years than I, and would have a more discerning eye.

If there is one criticism, it might be those shorts

[Bob S.]

You are using a relatively long layback. This is not necessarily bad, but it is a lot longer than what most rowers use. My guess is that you are going back about 30° from vertical, whereas many recommend about 15. However, many successful rowers do use that much layback, so you may get by OK as is. I do think that it might be worth trying to row with a little less to check out what it does to your results.

Bob S.

[btb1490]

I don't see any obvious problems with your form, but there are others on the forum who are more discerning than I am.

As for the force curve, what you want is a sharp attack and then a rounded plateau then a drop off. You get it by continuing to accelerate through the whole drive. It takes some experimentation, watching the force curve, but you can see it and feel it when you are driving through the whole stroke.

Thanks, I will strive for that.

There are a couple of things you can do to practice getting good strokes. The first is to try to do some low stroke rate rowing. What you do here is to consciously slow down your strokes per minute (to 16-18) and try to take very strong, smooth strokes, with a long smooth recovery. You watch the monitor, and without increasing your spm, try to drive your pace faster. Then, once you have the feel of a powerful stroke at those low rates, you can push the rate back up and try to maintain the same form on the drive. The only difference is how long you take for the recovery.

At 16 spm, your whole stroke is like a 4 count, with the drive on the first beat, and the recovery on 2,3,4. At 20 spm, it's a waltz (drive,2,3,drive,2,3...).

Have you done any set pieces? If you can share you time for a set distance row, like a 2k, I can suggest paces for these low rate exercises.

Great advice, thank you. Your advice makes good sense. I've done one 2k row in 7:27. That was before I learned about the drag factor, and my guess is I had it set too high.

[btb1490]

Your form looks pretty sound, at least to my eye. But as Greg writes, there are others here who've been rowing for many more years than I, and would have a more discerning eye.

If there is one criticism, it might be those shorts

Ha, yeah the shorts. As I said, I'm a runner with drawers full of running stuff, and the longer running shorts seemed to grab and tug as I rowed. Time to get some bike shorts perhaps. The padding sure will come in handy!

[btb1490]

You are using a relatively long layback. This is not necessarily bad, but it is a lot longer than what most rowers use. My guess is that you are going back about 30° from vertical, whereas many recommend about 15. However, many successful rowers do use that much layback, so you may get by OK as is. I do think that it might be worth trying to row with a little less to check out what it does to your results.

Bob S.

The concept2 form video said to use 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock as the torso angle, yet many of the other videos I viewed of people in competition looked like many leaned back farther than that, so that's what I was trying to emulate. I'll give a less extreme angle a shot and see what happens, as you suggested. My guess is not much power comes out of that final stage of the pull anyway, so it makes sense to lessen the angle. Thank you!

[Citroen]

Time to get some bike shorts perhaps. The padding sure will come in handy!

The padding in bike shorts is in the wrong place. So much so it can be very uncomfortable for a long session.

[btb1490]

Time to get some bike shorts perhaps. The padding sure will come in handy!

The padding in bike shorts is in the wrong place. So much so it can be very uncomfortable for a long session.

Told ya I was new at this! Thanks for saving me from some probably uncomfortable chafing.

[Snail Space]

You are using a relatively long layback. This is not necessarily bad, but it is a lot longer than what most rowers use. My guess is that you are going back about 30° from vertical, whereas many recommend about 15. However, many successful rowers do use that much layback, so you may get by OK as is. I do think that it might be worth trying to row with a little less to check out what it does to your results.

I think that your technique is really good, given your inexperience, so view my comments as suggestions rather than criticisms. Your flexibility is enviable too: many people (probably most - and including me) cannot get their shins vertical at front-stops with little or no lifting of the heels.

I agree with Bob about the lean-back. It is not such a disadvantage on an ergo, but if you ever try rowing on water it leads to your body momentum moving against the direction of travel on the recovery, and slowing the boat. If my rowers use too much lean-back I tell them to row without ANY. Almost invariably they then row with perfect body angles. Sit at back-stops. Sit with your shoulders just behind a vertical line upwards from the hip joint. That is the furthest back you should lean during a rowing stroke. You should be able to hold that static position indefinitely without strain.

Try rowing without your feet strapped in. This will quickly expose an excessively angled finish. It also ensures good sequencing of the stroke. At first it will feel unstable, but with good technique it will feel natural. I only ever row strapless.

Cheers,
Dave.

[btb1490]

You are using a relatively long layback. This is not necessarily bad, but it is a lot longer than what most rowers use. My guess is that you are going back about 30° from vertical, whereas many recommend about 15. However, many successful rowers do use that much layback, so you may get by OK as is. I do think that it might be worth trying to row with a little less to check out what it does to your results.

I think that your technique is really good, given your inexperience, so view my comments as suggestions rather than criticisms. Your flexibility is enviable too: many people (probably most - and including me) cannot get their shins vertical at front-stops with little or no lifting of the heels.

I agree with Bob about the lean-back. It is not such a disadvantage on an ergo, but if you ever try rowing on water it leads to your body momentum moving against the direction of travel on the recovery, and slowing the boat. If my rowers use too much lean-back I tell them to row without ANY. Almost invariably they then row with perfect body angles. Sit at back-stops. Sit with your shoulders just behind a vertical line upwards from the hip joint. That is the furthest back you should lean during a rowing stroke. You should be able to hold that static position indefinitely without strain.

Try rowing without your feet strapped in. This will quickly expose an excessively angled finish. It also ensures good sequencing of the stroke. At first it will feel unstable, but with good technique it will feel natural. I only ever row strapless.

Cheers,
Dave.

Dave, thank you very much for your feedback. The leanback issue on the water makes a lot of sense, so I'd probably better learn to get by without it on the erg, just in case I ever decide to try my hand at water rowing.

Regarding my flexibility, as a runner who has dealt with achilles and plantar faciitis issues in the past, having flexible calves is something I work on constantly.

Funny you mention the foot strap suggestion. I recently came across a post here about going strapless, and tried it the other day for a bit. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. I'll try it again to see if it decreases my leanback. I know when I first started rowing a few weeks ago, I would always have to keep tightening the footstraps every few hundred meters. Now I just barely keep them snug and don't have to worry about them the rest of the workout. That tells me how bad my form was in the beginning, and that I was pulling and tugging with my feet too much. I love learning this stuff and seeing the results.

Thanks again!

[Snail Space]

... in case I ever decide to try my hand at water rowing.

If you live reasonably close to a rowing club you must have a try. You would fall instantly in love with the sport. Also, it's even more joint-friendly than on an ergo. As well as the sport itself, there is the closeness to nature, and the sheer tranquility and beauty of being out on the river. Look up some of the photos that Byron Drachman has posted on the "OTW" section. When you row in the late evening autumn light it is almost a spiritual experience.

If rowing clubs in the US are anything like those in UK you will be impressed how friendly and welcoming people are. There will probably be someone with years of experience who would love to take you out on the water, and then spend loads of coaching time with you.

Try it once and you will be captivated.

Cheers,
Dave.

[comictimes]

The layback may be a bit long, but if you're having no problem rowing strapless you're obviously handling it fine. The only thing I would say (and others feel free to correct me, I could be totally off here) is that I get the feeling your shoulders are pretty tight, especially at the front end. Try thinking about sitting up, keeping your head up, and your shoulders loose as you come down the recovery. It may make things feel more comfortable and flowing.

As others have said, for just a few weeks rowing you look great! I was still getting the exact advice I just gave after 4 years of rowing

[btb1490]

... in case I ever decide to try my hand at water rowing.

If you live reasonably close to a rowing club you must have a try. You would fall instantly in love with the sport. Also, it's even more joint-friendly than on an ergo. As well as the sport itself, there is the closeness to nature, and the sheer tranquility and beauty of being out on the river. Look up some of the photos that Byron Drachman has posted on the "OTW" section. When you row in the late evening autumn light it is almost a spiritual experience.

If rowing clubs in the US are anything like those in UK you will be impressed how friendly and welcoming people are. There will probably be someone with years of experience who would love to take you out on the water, and then spend loads of coaching time with you.

Try it once and you will be captivated.

Cheers,
Dave.

Dave, that does sound wonderful, and I'm sure I would be hooked in no time. A lot of your descriptions remind me of why I love running so much. Seeing the sunrises, or the stars. Running in the trails away from everything. I've done some swimming, and also know that late evening autumn light experience that you talk about. There is a rowing club right in my town, and one of my friends is one of the founders. It sounds like I'll be giving it a go. Thanks again for everything.

[btb1490]

The layback may be a bit long, but if you're having no problem rowing strapless you're obviously handling it fine. The only thing I would say (and others feel free to correct me, I could be totally off here) is that I get the feeling your shoulders are pretty tight, especially at the front end. Try thinking about sitting up, keeping your head up, and your shoulders loose as you come down the recovery. It may make things feel more comfortable and flowing.

As others have said, for just a few weeks rowing you look great! I was still getting the exact advice I just gave after 4 years of rowing

Thanks, great observation and advice. This upper body stuff is new to me, so I'm sure there is much work needed in that department. Years of cycling have left me kind of hunched over and with bad posture, but I'm working hard to correct that, and I guess it shows with my rowing. I did work on not having as much of a layback today, and I think with some practice it will work out well. Thanks again.