Concept2 Forum

When doing sprint/speed interval session a la PP or WP, the recommended rest/recovery period is 2x the work period. For example, 8x500m warrants a 3:30 recovery period, because, presumably the rower does it in around 1:45, give or take a few ticks. The primary goal is to work on your VO2max.

Okay, in my other life as a runner I apply the same principles to doing 400m repeats on the track with 400m recovery jog. But I was told that this is too long a recovery period. Relative to the work interval, the recovery interval would be well less than twice the work time. So a lap might take 1:30. Recovery would be around 2:15, assuming a 9:00/mile pace. Again, the primary goal is to work on VO2max.

Help me reconcile this. The argument from the running side is that it takes 60-90 seconds for the body to get into the O2 debt area, so by shortening the recovery time you spend more time in that training zone. Would this also be true for rowing? Taking 3:30 rest/recovery would allow the HR to come down considerably, and then would take some time to get it up to that desired training zone again. Wouldn't the same principles apply here? Am I missing something?

I think the 3:30 rest for the 500s is to provide plenty of rest so that each 500m can be done at maximum. Obviously this is going to be faster than your 2k pace (maybe 3sec) and it may feel like an unnecessary rest (i found the same and give 2') but if you give your all on each rep, you'll need it. Plus rowing, in my opinion, is more taxing thann running.

When doing V02max training my understanding (from running) is that you don't want your HR to come down as it would take too long to get it back up. The general consensus is that the recovery period be equal to the work period.

Doing a 2k requires you to be at 90+% MHR. And in training for this it doesn't make sense to have your HR come down to 50% (or whatever it is after a 3:30 rest), and then have to cycle back up to close to 100% for 500m. Wouldn't you get a better response from a shorter rest so you can get back up to 100%MHR faster?

And rowing being more taxing than running is BS and irrelevant to the question.

My understanding is that for VO2max improvement, the rest times are shorter, for developing power the rest times are longer but the intervals are more intense. There are any number of articles that you can read for varying theories and programs. Good luck and have fun!

I don't know anything about this topic but I have done intervals that I found somewhere on this site (or maybe the UK site) It was 20 seconds on and 10 seconds off which would make the rest period HALF of the work period. I don't know if that tranfers to longer times but I have to tell you if you do this for 10 minutes it's a hell of a workout!!!

I'm no expert either, but from what I understand about the Pete plan and the WP is that there are different interval format workouts for different purposes. The short intervals are mainly to provide an opportunity to work at 2k race pace or faster, and do not necessarily have to do with specifically increasing vo2max.for these intervals, a more complete rest is employed to ensure that you are not limited aerobically inthe intervals.

There are mid length intervals (1.5k to 3k) with a rest period recommended at 1/2 the work time which put more stress on aerobic capacity. Even some of the longer format workouts are In interval format, for example 15x3'/1' rest. I think this is a more classics vo2max kind of workout.

I think I understand. VO2max workout should not be done with the kind of intensity as 8x500's. The that one spends in that zone is way too short. So these are strictly for developing maximal power.

Something like 4x1000m would be a better V02max workout, although the recovery period still seems too long as HR would come right down after the 5' rest.

So would 4x1000m at 2k pace with, say, 2:00 recovery, would be more of a VO2max workout. I've never done this workout with 2:00 rest. Is this realistic? Is it even worthwhile to do something like to improve VO2max?

bobkwan2007 wrote:I think I understand. VO2max workout should not be done with the kind of intensity as 8x500's. The that one spends in that zone is way too short. So these are strictly for developing maximal power.

Something like 4x1000m would be a better V02max workout, although the recovery period still seems too long as HR would come right down after the 5' rest.

So would 4x1000m at 2k pace with, say, 2:00 recovery, would be more of a VO2max workout. I've never done this workout with 2:00 rest. Is this realistic? Is it even worthwhile to do something like to improve VO2max?

No it's not 4x 1k with 5 min rest is roughly 2k pace plus 1, so on only 2 min you will have to slow down. The lower heart rate in the rest periode will be soon high again if you start rowing.

hjs wrote: No it's not 4x 1k with 5 min rest is roughly 2k pace plus 1, so on only 2 min you will have to slow down. The lower heart rate in the rest periode will be soon high again if you start rowing.

But that's the whole point of a VO2max workout, isn't it? That you do not allow your HR to come back down before the start of the next rep? And whether it's 2k pace or 2k+1 is immaterial. The point is that it's a hard workout that gets your HR up quickly, and the short recovery forces your HR to stay high.

You might find http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/interva ... vo2max-471 worth reading. Here's also a link to Owen Anderson, a running coach who wrote the piece: http://www.educatedrunner.com/About.aspx

To quote from a different source, "[interval training] can be manipulated by altering the warm-up intensity and timing, work and relief interval velocity and duration, amplitude, interval number per set, and the number of sets performed." Rowing/erging adds some sport-specific parameters: rating, drive:recovery ratio (to some extent a function of rating), drag factor (doesn't have to stay constant for training purposes), smooth power application and stroking consistency (the less fluctuation around mean velocity the better for efficiency), etc. All of these can affect both the physiological and also the biomechanical (i.e. "rowing economy") results. It follows that there are umpty ways in which you can arrange interval workouts to target VO2max, if that's what you want to do.

With regard to the WP, its Level 1 workouts such as 8 x 500m are NOT generally predicated on fixed-duration rests but on equal-distance, active rests at prescribed intensities (derived from 2k reference pace and linked to ratings of 16-18 spm). If you're a 7-minute 2k rower, for example, the prescribed pace for your recovery 500 is 2:28 r16-18. That makes work:recovery 1:45 to 2:28 or 1:1.4 rather than 1:2. Looking at it the other way, if you're taking 3:30 to row your recovery 500s in a WP Level 1 8 x 500 you should be using a 2:29 reference pace (implies a 9:56 reference 2k).

Mike Caviston believes that HR is a lousy proxy for intensity and deliberately avoided linking anything in the WP to it. However if you actually do Level 1 recoveries as prescribed by the WP and feel a compulsion to track HR, it's unlikely to recover much below 2 x resting rate on average during them. If it drops that far on any of them at all. Most importantly, overall intensity will be such that you definitely will push your VO2max along with your lactate-burning and lactate clearing subsystems and your rowing efficiency at race pace or faster. The main question is whether there might not be some more effective way of doing so, if that's what you want to target. See above for things to tinker with....

bobkwan2007 wrote:

hjs wrote: No it's not 4x 1k with 5 min rest is roughly 2k pace plus 1, so on only 2 min you will have to slow down. The lower heart rate in the rest periode will be soon high again if you start rowing.

But that's the whole point of a VO2max workout, isn't it? That you do not allow your HR to come back down before the start of the next rep? And whether it's 2k pace or 2k+1 is immaterial. The point is that it's a hard workout that gets your HR up quickly, and the short recovery forces your HR to stay high.

fine, but if you want you keep your heartrate up, by keeping the rest short, you should alter your pacing. 2k pace for this will make you crash hard in the 3 td rep and the 2 td will be close to maximal.
If you think pace does not matter, go ahead and find out how it goes.