Concept2 Forum

Hi,

I started rowing with a Concept2 erg just over 6 weeks ago. Couple of facts about me: male, 36, 70kgs, and consider myself reasonably fit (lots of hiking in the past).

The best 10k time I've managed so far is 48:39.3. The question I have is: is this any good for someone who has just started out? Looking at times on the forums... I think in looks pretty poor! Any help would be much appreciated. Other information: flat out I managed a 1:54.5 500m row... again not great. I'm guessing I'm perhaps hoping for to much to soon; maybe I need more time to build up a good rowing base and need time to better my technique. During the 10k I did I did struggle to maintain a steady heart rate; plus the 500m split times were not steady... I suspect this may be due to me not managing pace and fatigue consistently.

My training plan is as follows:
- Saturday 10k
- Sunday 2000m x 4, 3 min rest
- Monday Rest
- Tuesday 10k Row
- Wednesday 500m x 4, 1 min rest
- Thursday Slow 10k
- Friday Rest

Any help guidance would be much appreciatated.

Regards,

Andy

Hi Andy,

The thing that most often holds people back is technique. A couple of preliminaries:

1. What drag factor are you rowing at? Generally, you'll want to row between 110 and 130, which usually (but not always) corresponds to setting the damper around 3 or 4 on the rower. There are instructions on the website to check the drag factor.

2. How is your technique? Many folks have been steered wrong by well meaning, but ignorant, staff people at health clubs to row as fast as they can at maximum drag. What you really need to do is to think about 2 different measurements of your rowing; pace and rate. Pace is the /500 meter splits that you've posted. Rate is the strokes per minute (SPM). To get faster at rowing, you need to concentrate on increasing your pace at any given constant stroke rate. So, if you could provide some information about the stroke rate that you are using in your session, that would help people give you better advice.

3. Sometimes folks are doing something in their stroke that slows them way down, or tires them out. For me, it was rushing too fast back up the slide and rowing at too high a rate. Once I started to slow it down and think of the whole stroke and recovery as a 4 count I started improving pretty rapidly. The catch is on the first beat, the finish is on the second, and the 3rd and 4th beat are the recovery.

4. Finally, when it comes to rowing technique, the best thing you can do is post a link to a video of yourself pulling your normal strokes on this forum. The video can be short, less than a minute, but it should show you doing the strokes as you do them in your 10K. Many, many people have been helped by the constructive feedback that they have received this way.

5. You mentioned that you are 70Kg and reasonably fit. How tall are you? Are you carrying extra weight? I ask because you are within shouting distance of being in the lightweight category. The ranking times are quite different for lightweights. Rowing performance can be frustratingly linked to height and weight, so to set good goals, you might want to look at some of the heights and weights of the folks you are comparing yourself to.

Finally, I'm impressed with your training schedule. It looks like you are taking this pretty seriously. I bet you will see your times drop pretty steadily over the next 6 months.

Thanks for the prompt response. Drag Factor is ~120 (Damper 3).

10k Stroke Rate is in the range 25 to 31 and 10k 500m split pace ranges from 2:15 to 2:35 - I think the fluctuations are caused by fatigue and a lack of focus on technique. I start out at a slow-strong stroke rate and then progress to a faster less powerful stroke... again I think this is caused by fatigue and poor focus on consistent technique.

Height is 1.78m (5ft 10), little extra weight being carried.

Thanks, Andy

KipperTheDog wrote:Thanks for the prompt response. Drag Factor is ~120 (Damper 3).

10k Stroke Rate is in the range 25 to 31 and 10k 500m split pace ranges from 2:15 to 2:35 - I think the fluctuations are caused by fatigue and a lack of focus on technique. I start out at a slow-strong stroke rate and then progress to a faster less powerful stroke... again I think this is caused by fatigue and poor focus on consistent technique.

Height is 1.78m (5ft 10), little extra weight being carried.

Thanks, Andy

A range of 25-31 is definitely on the high side for a 10k. If you use the PM clock, it is relatively easy to keep a 20spm rate, since you can start each catch on a 3 second mark. i.e. 0, 3, 6, 9, 12... Emphasize driving hard on the catch, getting your hands away fast (i.e. before your knees come up) and creeping up the slide slowly to catch the next stroke. Here is a video that does a decent job of instruction:

The Thames Rowing Club technique video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA

Bob S.

Increase the drag a little, you can get back to 120 later on when you get some leg speed in the drive. Your flying up and down the slide but your not putting in the power.

Common problems for beginners is a rating that is too high so try and focus on bringing it down but take stronger strokes. It is harder to start with but it pays off later on. The theory is simple, the lower the rating and the faster you can go at the lower rating the faster you go when you rate up. If your already doing up to 31 SPM you have no headroom. As an example, 2:15 pace for me is about 12 SPM.

Preferably get a heart rate monitor connected up so you can track your progress and stay in the training bands. Looking at your times you should expect some rapid gains. 10Km is a great distance, a few of us on RowPro have settled on this distance for our training rows, however you may want to start on something a little shorter like the 5Km so you can focus and maintain your form and build up to it.

Don't be impatient, it takes a few months to get into the swing of it.

Thanks for all the advice; lots to take on board. Following watching some technique videos on the internet I had another blast at a 500m sprint today: I managed a 1:49:5. Significant improvement from the 1:54:5 I did a couple of days ago.

I think the next thing is to, as suggested, focus on some regular 5k rows.... focussing on my technique and trying to keep the stokes, heart rate and pace under control and steady.

Andy

31st August Update: Following on from the above advice I wanted to give you an update on my progress. I managed to do a 2K in under 8 minutes (7:53.1) and a 500m sprint in 1:41.8 ----- Woo Hoo!!!. Massive improvements in a relatively short period of time... I suspect due to me watching the technique videos and trying to be more consistent/efficient with my rowing strokes.

One thing I have noticed, suspect it may be technique related, I can achieve a faster sprint time with a higher drag factor. The 1:41.8 was achieved with the damper set to number 7; with the damper set to number 3 I can only achieve a 1:45.2.... thats a massive 4 seconds difference. Any ideas what technique issue could be causing this?

Thanks again for all your advice.

Andy

KipperTheDog wrote:31st August Update: Following on from the above advice I wanted to give you an update on my progress. I managed to do a 2K in under 8 minutes (7:53.1) and a 500m sprint in 1:41.8 ----- Woo Hoo!!!. Massive improvements in a relatively short period of time... I suspect due to me watching the technique videos and trying to be more consistent/efficient with my rowing strokes.

One thing I have noticed, suspect it may be technique related, I can achieve a faster sprint time with a higher drag factor. The 1:41.8 was achieved with the damper set to number 7; with the damper set to number 3 I can only achieve a 1:45.2.... thats a massive 4 seconds difference. Any ideas what technique issue could be causing this?

Thanks again for all your advice.

Andy

A high damper setting could be appropriate for a sprint, but for anything over a 500 I would think that it would be counterproductive. By the way, damper settings can be misleading. It is much better to check and use the drag factors:

Damper Setting & Workout Intensity:

http://www.concept2.com/us/training/bas ... ensity.asp

Understanding Drag Factor:

http://www.concept2.com/us/training/adv ... factor.asp

Bob S.

I would suggest doing workouts over 10k if you really want to drop that 10k time. You'll find that if you do 12k or 15k once a week to start, then maybe 2 or 3 a week eventually a 10k will feel like nothing and your time will drop like magic.

At least that's what I noticed. While I never trained for a 10k specifically, during the fall I did 3 or 4 15k's a week and next thing you know I'm PRing on a 10k with no problems at all.

That being said though definitely ease into it. Too much volume increase too quickly can lead to injuries and overtraining

My wife and I have only started taking the rowing machine seriously. I have watched some very good technique based Youtube videos, Training TAll and Black Horse Rowing to name 2. My wife has only been working out ever for the last 15 months. We have just completed our 10k mine for a 60 yr old 6ft 1 in 235lb 56 min. Hers 48 yrs old 5ft 6in 130 lbs 49 min. Still working on our 500 meter. Never thought until tonight to start logging our rowing sessions but she has been taking pictures of he end of rowing session. Funny how we are getting hooked on the machine. Oh by the way my wife is the most non competitive person I have met but the rowing machine brings out the beast in her. Plus she works 80 hrs a week

k9aid wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2018, 11:21 pm

... 10k mine for a 60 yr old 6ft 1 in 235lb 56 min.

You have some desperate technique issues. At six foot you should be closer to 40 minutes for 10K.
2:48 pace is only 73.8W.

It is easy to get disheartened as a beginner seeing what the super fit experienced rowers can do. For most normal humans completing a 5 minute row is an achievement and so a 10k at any pace is a great achievement. That said, technique is the most important thing for any beginner, errors propagated now will become much harder to reduce later. Ultimately someone with good technique and fitness should be able to double their distance between 1000 and 10000 only dropping their pace/500M 4-6S. 500m is slightly different as it is possible to over rate so maybe drop a further 8S. So I would expect 500M pace to drop around 25S going from 500 to 10k. So a 1:41 500 equates to a 2:06 pace for 10k or 42 minutes. This suggests that the OP could drop their 10k time more easily by improving fitness. being able to hill walk all day is a very different fitness challenge to a 10k.

As for K9aid, there may well be technique issues, or it might be that again fitness is the key. This may be more of a "walk" than a "run". Nothing wrong with that, but with training it can be significantly bettered.

Hi All,

10k in 47:23, yesterday.

61 yr. old male

Hello everyone,

1st ever 10k yesterday at 44:32 at level 6
5k today at 21:59 at level 6 today
42 yr old male

iain wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2018, 11:31 am

It is easy to get disheartened as a beginner seeing what the super fit experienced rowers can do. For most normal humans completing a 5 minute row is an achievement and so a 10k at any pace is a great achievement. That said, technique is the most important thing for any beginner, errors propagated now will become much harder to reduce later. Ultimately someone with good technique and fitness should be able to double their distance between 1000 and 10000 only dropping their pace/500M 4-6S. 500m is slightly different as it is possible to over rate so maybe drop a further 8S. So I would expect 500M pace to drop around 25S going from 500 to 10k. So a 1:41 500 equates to a 2:06 pace for 10k or 42 minutes. This suggests that the OP could drop their 10k time more easily by improving fitness. being able to hill walk all day is a very different fitness challenge to a 10k.

As for K9aid, there may well be technique issues, or it might be that again fitness is the key. This may be more of a "walk" than a "run". Nothing wrong with that, but with training it can be significantly bettered.

Very true and great post