Concept2 Forum

Hey all! I came across this on the web a couple days ago. Looks really interesting and I'm considering jumping into it (although it does admittedly seem too good to be true). Flip through it and let me know what you think. It's a pretty short document. Thanks!!!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/55434688/Ligh ... Management

Holy moly, that looks like a tough program. It is basically 2 a days every day, six days a week for months on end. On top of that, one of the daily workouts is about 2 hours long (45' x 2 plus 15 minutes for stretching between sessions).

I do like the absolute-ness of the program. There is little equivocation or tailoring and that simplicity is beguiling. It does beg some questions though.

1. Your power on the erg is dependent on the power you can maintain, but not dependent on your body weight, whereas the number of pullups you can do is definitely a factor of both, so having a fixed target independent of weight does not seem consistent to me.
2. The straight 155 HR goal seems to ignore the fact that there are real and significant differences from person to person in terms of cardiac physiology. I'd be more comfortable with this stated in terms of below the upper end of you UT1 HR.
3. I like the idea of the 3x10' as a predictor. I'll have to try it.
4. Squats: Holy cow, that's a lot of squats.

If your body can take it, and you've got the time, go for it.

P.S. Please consider that I have no where near enough experience to be a trustworthy arbiter of good or bad programs. All I'm trying to do is share the questions that came to me when I read it. I readily defer to others with more time in the saddle (as it were), if they think my points are bunk.

I use a similar program. It's called, "Work Your Butt Off," and it has been just as effective.

Bill

gregsmith01748 wrote: 1. Your power on the erg is dependent on the power you can maintain, but not dependent on your body weight, whereas the number of pullups you can do is definitely a factor of both, so having a fixed target independent of weight does not seem consistent to me.

Title says lightweight rowing so you'd be looking at a pretty narrow band of body weights...

alexc25 wrote:Hey all! I came across this on the web a couple days ago. Looks really interesting and I'm considering jumping into it (although it does admittedly seem too good to be true). Flip through it and let me know what you think. It's a pretty short document. Thanks!!!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/55434688/Ligh ... Management

I fail to understand what's "project management" about it.

S

There is nothing new or shocking in that. Do a lot of SS, throw in some AT and Transport work, pull a good 2k. The notion that it guarantees a 6:20 is ridiculous, but you would certainly pull a good score for yourself if you could manage the volume without injury.

I agree with most of what you guys said, but another thing I noticed was that the "aerobic base" work was at a 155 heart rate. Do you think it would make a little more sense to be dropped to the 130-140 range (assuming a max HR of 200)? Just my two cents.

I'd be very interested to hear of any and all lightweight couch potatoes that were transformed into sub 6:20 ergers by this plan. How many sub 6:20 lightweights have there been since 2000, how many of them were couch potatoes six months before they pulled their 6:20, and how many of those trained under this guy? This can't be serious.

I am certainly not an expert but this seems like a terrible plan. It appears to be thought up by some self-absorbed college rower who thinks that he can create great rowers using his own personal trial plan as a model. In no way does this plan account for individual differences. It also does not recommend any pacing for the two 45 minute rows, only that it should be under 2:30/500.

How did you, OP, find this article, by the way?

Eliot

eliotsmith wrote:In no way does this plan account for individual differences. It also does not recommend any pacing for the two 45 minute rows, only that it should be under 2:30/500.

He does give a heart rate guideline, which makes sense because the pace should be getting faster as you work on it. But yeah, not necessarily a great plan.

For the sake of discussion, would anyone care to explain how they would adjust the plan to make it better? Could be good for everyone to see how different minds approach the matter.

OK, the couch potato is negated by the caveats, and presumably HR is range à la Karvonen, not flat % of max.

It looks effective, but how boring; for six months do 2x45' at 75 or 77.5 % HR, six days a week? And do we learn to row before or after?

No recovery time after the weights? So is none needed, because they are too light to have any effect?

I prefer the Interactives and Xeno's two month schedule. Even the Wolverine if I could do it, at least it teaches us what a real stroke is.

When I looked through it, I had a mixed reaction - I agree with hitting the weights before erging, this is how I do it and I couldn't imagine going as hard on either weights or the rower doing it the other way round.
However I found it had too long rest periods for me, especially between the erg sessions (2x45' with ~10'rest!!), it seems that if one was to undertake this plan, as the author has stated, they would HAVE to put their rowing before anything else, you would be spending a good 2hrs+ in the gym every session, not to mention sometimes twice a day, i'm afraid i'd lose motivation quickly with being in the same environment for so long...
Just my opinion, i've only had about 6months of indoor rowing experience

sheehc wrote:For the sake of discussion, would anyone care to explain how they would adjust the plan to make it better? Could be good for everyone to see how different minds approach the matter.

If I was going with the same focus as this plan I would include a little more variety, IE not just 2x45' pieces. I'd include some shorter pieces with maybe a little more intensity (but still steady state), something like 3x20'. As for days with weight lifting I'd perform the erging in the morning, and do the weight lifting in the afternoon. The relatively low intensity cardio shouldn't tire your muscles out too much, so you should be fine for lifting in the afternoon. I'd also combine the squats and pull ups, no reason to split them up as they shouldn't effect each other much.

Squats:
320-360 lbs max
Pull-ups:
35If you can achieve each of these goals then you are pretty muchguaranteed to have a sub-6:20 2k.

Heck, why row at all then? I should just be focusing on squats and pull-ups until I hit those #s, then start doing some rowing once I have the strength.

BTW - is squatting 2X body weight a huge deal for 1RM? I think I'd have a much tougher time with the pullups.