Concept2 Forum

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and have recently started rowing again after about a 7 year layoff. I've spent some time reading many of the discussions posted on the forum and have found them very helpful. There is a ton of useful information on here so thank you all for sharing.

I have a question regarding SPM and heart rate. I've just started the 3rd cycle of L1/L2 workouts from the WP/PP and I've experienced pretty rapid improvement. However, my stroke rate seems low for these workouts when compared to what others have posted. I'm also not sure that I'm working in the correct heart rate band for these workouts.

This week I rowed 8X500 at 1:38.3 and 26 spm. My ending heart rate for the eight intervals was 166, 169, 170, 171, 172, 172, 174, and 175. I also rowed 5X1500 at 1:45.1 and 23 spm. My ending heart rate for the five intervals was 174,179, 181, 182, and 183.

I feel confident that I can increase the spm and pace on the 8X500 workout, but the 5X1500 was a challenge. Is being able to increase the stroke rate while maintaining power a matter of fitness? Is it best to increase spm gradually or should I concentrate on increasing the spm and not worry so much about power per stroke? My heart rate also seems high for these workouts. Should I be working on more steady state rows to improve fitness? What is the recommended training band for steady state rows?

Sorry for all of the questions. There is a lot of information on the forum, but I'm kind of confused.

http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/training/interactive

This should answer most questions.

Strokerate is a good deal fitness, the rates you know use are very low, in itself no problem, but If you can,t rate up it is.
500 reps are roighly 2k work, the minimum rate for 2k is around 30,
1500 reps are toughly 5k pace, 5k is roughly 3 spm below 2k.

Maybe, you use a very long stroke, if so that will decrease the ratings. Sub optimal ratings are not 100% efficient and will cost you time.

Thanks for the link, James.

hjs, could you explain "long" stroke. I'm sorry that I don't understand. Isn't the length of your stroke just based on how long your legs are? Should I shorten up my stroke somehow?

I have been doing a lot low stroke work since getting back on the erg (WP). Would doing some really short sprints at a high spm help?

8X500 at 1:38.3 and 26 spm. 5X1500 at 1:45.1 and 23 spm

If you are using a Concept 2 machine, these numbers say you pull a very solid stroke. If WP means something else, not a C2, all the following numbers are nonsense. If it means Wolverine plan, L4 might suit well.

Your W/Rate ratio is 13-14 W', high. On a C2 would say you can easily pull a 2k at about 6:40.

Length of the stroke is just that, how far your handle travels. Too long usually implies a long layback, since it's impossible to go beyond the chainguard at the front end.

Your HRs are high because you are pulling short intervals at maximum power. For endurance, we use the same stroke, but at lower ratings. You could train at rate 20-24 and 13W = 260-310 Watts; very sweaty, but HR will be lower. The Interactives give a lot more detail; a Level 4 or 5 should suit you if you have the time.

Best to be confused and doing everything right (strong stroke at low rate)! Shortening stroke is certainly a common route to sprint ratings on the erg. Everyone does it so no reason for ambiguation. Another path is faster full stroke. Let it happen naturally by doing bits and pieces (100m, 1') at higher rates and all the power you can supply. Don't do the low power Energizer Bunny slide. That's a dogtrot for all day survival.

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'll try some lower spm workouts (at the suggested Watts) to build endurance and some short intervals to work on increasing my rate.

James, I am rowing on a Concept 2 machine and I was referring to the Wolverine Plan. Thanks again!

Joe L wrote:Thanks for the tips, guys. I'll try some lower spm workouts (at the suggested Watts) to build endurance and some short intervals to work on increasing my rate.

James, I am rowing on a Concept 2 machine and I was referring to the Wolverine Plan. Thanks again!

Try going no lower than 17-18spm, I have got into the bad habit of training as low 15-16spm and rating up again has become a bit of a problem.

Forgot to mention drag. If it's too high anything can happen, but mostly unwanted.

Set it to zero, increase if and only if you can't deliver all the power you want to see.

What drag does is set your pull speed; we have an ideal speed where force is still close to max but the stroke is done much sooner. On low drag you can rate 35 and still have more time to rest than to pull. At 20 you wait till the cows come home, boats and flywheels keep going.

Which is the point of Rowing: isotonic, not isostatic, because boats and flywheels move fast.

just curious, - hope to do my first season otw this year.

would it be correct to say that the rowers try to keep the oar in the water as long as possible - i.e. long strokes compared to 1/2 - 3/4 strokes ?
i'm guessing this is more efficient, once the boat is moving ?

Yes. See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf84O5cTWY4
A vid at UT1 should follow.

Todays sculls, thanks to C2 and others, have strong hydrodynamic effects so are more efficient at catch and release than when at 90° to the boat. Also getting the blade buried and pulling is quicker than the catch on the erg, but not instantanous.

So shortening the stroke afloat is a dead loser. Anyway it's not up to you to decide, we follow coach and stroke when afloat; or stay ashore.

Carl Watts wrote:Try going no lower than 17-18spm, I have got into the bad habit of training as low 15-16spm and rating up again has become a bit of a problem.

I've noticed that you're always the lowest SPM on the board during the GenFit rows. I wasn't sure if I should try to emulate you or not... I'm still in many ways a beginner, so I tend to try many different things.

Draggon (Ron P. - US in RowPro)

Hey Ron, good to see you here.

Just of late the rating has really dropped but it does relate to pace. Just waiting for the weather to cool and then will revert to the 5:30pm local time rows which wer 1:58 pace at 17-18spm so nothing wrong with that for a training row.

Still an advantage to be able to rate low and still maintain a decent pace but 15-16 spm at 2:08.6 pace and 137 average HR for the 30 minute wouldn't be called much of a workout to some.

Carl, if you plug your stats into the IP zone generator, would 2:08 pace be around mid-UT2 for you? Perfectly legitimate training pace--particularly at 15-16 spm. Why would you think otherwise?