Recommended training plan to improve 10k PB?

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

Folks,

Have recently just discovered the forum here, really enjoying the stuff I've read so far and would love some advice from you on a suitable training plan to improve my 10k PB.

Some background: 41 year old male, 178cm, 75kg.

I would have first sat on an erg more than 20 years ago, but it has only ever represented a very occasional part of my exercise until the last couple of months. However there have been a few things which have happened recently which now have me very excited about making the erg a significant part of my training:

• Realising having the damper on 10 is not the best way to train! I definitely used to be one of those guys who thought damper on 10 = better workout. I'm currently feeling pretty comfortable with a DF of around 125, but intending to try some values lower and higher than that to see if I do have a particular sweet spot.
• Realising that not only do erg workouts not always have to be high intensity, it is almost certainly the case they should not always be high intensity. From a bit of reading here (people's daily workouts, the polarisation thread, general discussion of 80/20), PP and the Indoor Sports Services programs I am intending to include more longer time lower intensity work in my training.
• Some of the other reading I've been doing on the forum here and a few other spots. I love record keeping, love a stat and love analysis - which makes it seem like serious tracking of erg workouts will be right in my wheelhouse!

In terms of current performance, I may have done better on some of these when I was in my 20s, but don't remember any specifics so all of these are form the last few months (actually most from the last week...). Current PBs are:

• 250m: 49.9 (1:39.8 pace) - this was last night as the final 250m of a PP speed pyramid
• 500m: 1:44.6 (1:44.6 pace) - also the second interval of this distance in the speed pyramid last night - must have had a bit left in the tank after the second 750!
• 2k: 7:26 (1:51.5 pace)
• 5k: 19:27 (1:56.7 pace)
• 30': 7,423m - (2:01.2 pace) - this was last week
• 10k: 41:12.7 (2:03.6 pace) - also last week - so much low hanging fruit!

When I think about what I would like to achieve on the erg my number 1 objective is absolutely to get my 10k PB below 40 minutes. I would get a tremendous sense of satisfaction from being able to keep the pace below 2:00.0 for that period of time, and it's certainly the first number I look at in anyone's PB signature.

I've never rowed further than 10k - though certainly planning to do so - but would love some advice about a suitable training plan to bring my 10k PB down. A few options I'm considering are:

• Exclusive focus on long distance stuff like Edward4492 suggested recently in the daily workout thread
• PP 5k
• PP 2k making sure not to skip the longer sessions - even in preference to the intervals if I miss the odd session (I won't get 5 ergs in every week). This is probably where I'm leaning initially - I'd like to give the intervals with longer rest periods a crack - I certainly enjoyed the speed pyramid I did last night much more than an 11x500m 1R I did last week but certainly did feel like I'd had a proper hit out last night. Here I'd also try to get the longer sessions well up above 10k. I realise this statement about intervals might go slightly against my stated goal, but expect the variety will help to maintain motivation, and I'm not too fussed if I don't get the 10k PB down absolutely as quick as possible.
• Just harden up and go and break 40:00.0 next time I row 10k!

Any thoughts amongst those would be most appreciated, as well as a couple of other things I've been wondering about:

• Lower SPM ranges - how much I should care and what is appropriate. On Sunday I did 10k @ 23r (2:11.9 pace) - which was certainly the lowest rating erg I've ever done - was hoping to keep my HR under 160 there and did manage to do so until the last couple of minutes. I do feel like developing better form and power at lower SPMs would be a good idea for me though.
• How often is it reasonable to try for a 10k PB? Under the assumption the first time I break 40 minutes will be a very hard workout - how long should I wait before trying to bring it down further? A couple of months or more perhaps?

Think that's my initial brain dump. Sorry for length, thanks for reading and any comments most appreciated!

[jackarabit]

Pete Marston stated that 2K Pete Plan "made me" [Marston] faster at middle distances as well as at 2k. I am at the bottom of the grampa league and it did the same for me. The experts will counter that almost anything works at the beginning for the deconditioned. No downside to that at all if you fall in that category! Most of us starting out need technique, speed, power, and endurance. The continuous plans such as Pete 2 and 5K feature a nearly automatic feedback loop of weekly self-evaluation which can be really exciting en route to the Big Goal. Periodized plans require a bit more patience; the daily/weekly gains may or may not be obvious.

Yes to low ratings. Stuff like 30'r20 will make your legs fast and your back strong without spitting a lung cookie.

On frequency of time trials, an anaerobic thrash to the death every day will grind you down AND 1) technique won't improve, 2) power/rate (SPI) won't increase, 3) you'll become impatient and begin to doubt that there can ever be days when stomping form and psychological force majeure come together to produce the big results.

[Bob S.]

Since your goal is centered on the 10k, it looks to me like the 5k PP would be the closest match. I am not familiar with that program, but you want more distance, so it would certainly be more appropriate than the 2k PP or the IP, which is also geared to the 2k. Even with a program aimed at he 5k, you would need to make some adjustments to get in plenty of longer stuff, like one hour rows. 40 minutes requires a lot of emphasis on building up your endurance.

Bob S.

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

Thanks both for the thoughts.

Jack - general conditioning is not too bad, was doing a reasonable amount of running before turning attention to the erg - but under no illusions about where I stand on any of your points of technique, power, speed or endurance - hopefully still lots of 'easy' gains on all four of those!

I did get a longer one in this evening - 12k @ 20r (2:17.2 pace) - so fairly slow but extremely easy - HR only touched 150 a couple of times - that's a PB in terms of longest ever erg - will defo do a piece lasting at least an hour this weekend when I have a bit more time than I do midweek.

[hjs]

Focus mostly on longer rows, lower rated. You are not very tall, but still try 21/23 ish. For 10 speed is not much needed, making meters will help you the most.
Re TT trials, if needed you can do one every 3/4 days. You certainly don,t have wait months. A way at this point is to rotate between distances for TT, this week you get pb s getting better over the board.

When you longer. 30 min or longer low rate work gets better, your free rate 10 k will also improve. So you will know when you are ready to try. Should be come pretty soon.

[gregsmith01748]

I just looked at the PP 5K again. I have a couple ideas for changes to improve a 10k.
- You might want to tailor it so that you do the 10k+ sessions as a full hour.
- You also might want to replace one of the hard sessions per week with an additional hour of steady state.
- The last change would be to modify the last hard session per week to be longer. I think you could do a 10k time trial every other week.

You really need to work on base fitness to do well on a 10k.

The other workout that you might want to try, which isn't part of the plan is call a "10k push". This is a workout where you start slow and speed up as you go along. Based on the times you showed, you might try starting at 2:15, and dropping 2 splits every 1000m. So, 2:15,2:13,2:11, etc.

The workout gets you used to negative splitting, which is a good habit. It breaks up the workout so it feels shorter. And it gets you some experience rowing hard with you HR already high.

[jackarabit]

The 10k+ pace push or pace dragdown is a very natural tendency for some rowers as they "warm" to the task. Much better than full-on TTs for recovery as fatigue is delayed. Also better in that good form can be maintained.

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

Lots of steady-state with 1 AT workout thrown in a week, maybe 2 if you're feeling particularly adventurous.

Following that plan got me to a 35:28 10k back in November - probably in the high 34's now.

[bend3333]

How many K's of steady state were you doing a week? For a 10k program what would you think the minimum amount of weekly k's would suffice for a good 10k? Obviously, everyone is different.

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

Averaging 90-105k a week, with a peak of 115k. Vast majority is SS - anywhere from 12-20k per session. As long as you're doing 45+ minutes I think you're good. Closer to 60 is good but not necessary.

[Romper]

Lots of steady-state with 1 AT workout thrown in a week, maybe 2 if you're feeling particularly adventurous.
.

How do you measure AT during the session?

Romper

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

By AT I mean aerobic threshold - the point at which your blood lactate continues to rise because you're producing it faster than you can clear it. It's the intensity/effort that you can sustained for a prolonged amount of time, though it's not endless (about an hour).

It's important to train your AT because that's what enables you to work at higher intensities without accumulating lactate in the blood. The closer to your VO2max you can work while keeping lactate from rising uncontrollably, the better.

For me I do most of my AT workouts in the 1:47-1:48 range (splits). The best way to make sure you're at the right intensity is to lactate test, but most of us don't have access to that so I just approximate to the split I can hold for 50-60 minutes all out.

[MarkEg]

Good, informative post. I'm a not dissimilar age and am, like you, more geared towards the longer distances. I rarely do 2K's but focus more on low-rate work with a view to improving my 10K and 15K times. I do a lot of 30 minute Rate 22 ish work. I rate 22 simply because I don't have massively long legs, so a 22 is comparable to a Rate 20 for taller people. I used to be able to only sit at 2.05 for the 30, now I'm managing 1.57 ish and that's all down to improvements in technique and power. The low rate stuff is so good in my opinion because it forces you to maximize every stroke's efficiency, rather than using speed. I always think that once you get up around 30 SPM, you're wasting a lot of energy just sliding. Anyway, I digress... Rate 22's have been the key for me, and, in addition I can do 10K and 15K pieces at less than 2.00 nowadays. The real obstacle for me was to get my 5K time down below 19 minutes, which I did a couple of weeks ago. That was a huge landmark ( and was borne entirely out of the work I'd been doing on low rate pieces)

[Romper]

By AT I mean aerobic threshold - the point at which your blood lactate continues to rise because you're producing it faster than you can clear it. It's the intensity/effort that you can sustained for a prolonged amount of time, though it's not endless (about an hour).

It's important to train your AT because that's what enables you to work at higher intensities without accumulating lactate in the blood. The closer to your VO2max you can work while keeping lactate from rising uncontrollably, the better.

For me I do most of my AT workouts in the 1:47-1:48 range (splits). The best way to make sure you're at the right intensity is to lactate test, but most of us don't have access to that so I just approximate to the split I can hold for 50-60 minutes all out.

Thanks.

Can I ask how you derived 1:47-1:48 range splits to be at your AT Workouts?

I need to acquire a lactate test kit - seems to me pretty pivotal in training at the right intensity accurately and consistently.

Romper

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

It wasn't a super scientific approach - my 60 minute test PR is a 1:48.3 and that was a while ago, so I figure somewhere south of that is my AT pace. I also rely on "feel" - again, not very scientific. I've also checked my HR during my AT workouts and that pace gets me around 165 beats per minute, so right in the range where I want to be.