Hello, Concept2 Forum.

[GlassJoe]

Hey, guys.

My wife and I just started a CrossFit program last week (Tuesdays and Thursdays). Our first workout started with a 500m row on a Model D. So here I am, five days later, and I believe I've found a used Model D to purchase for $600 and I am JACKED UP!

I loved the rowing machine and immediately started researching them, and it didn't take long to figure out that the Concept rowers were basically a no-brainer. I was ready to pull the trigger on a new Model D for $860 shipped, and just today a local Craigslist ad for a Model D for 600 came up, and I jumped all over it. Person seems like a straight shooter, and it sounds like it was manufactured sometime in the 2007 timeframe and got about 3 months of use on it before being basically set aside.

I'll do most of my research on the forum here since it looks like an absolutely great resource instead of asking a bunch of silly questions, but I just wanted to stop in and say "hi" and "thanks" since this forum helped me decide quickly that the Concept rower was the way to go.

I'm 38 years old, 5'8", 240 pounds, and I'm hoping to get in shape with CrossFit and this rowing machine (though round is technically a shape). Wish me luck.

[Timeinvestment]

Welcome, I just bought a rower off craigslist (model c $400) and then bought a new C3 monitor, logcard, and heart monitor directly from concept two. Their service and advice is excellent.
January 4th, will make exactly two months rowing My ex boyfriend (47) introduced me to the sport. I love the electronic logbook and $7 dollar logbook key card.
You got a great deal, congratulations. You and your wife should join our team "aviator" for the January row challenge, it is my first also:)

[bobkwan2007]

Welcome to the forum Joe. Keep us updated on your progress.

[GlassJoe]

So....my wife and I drive about an hour to go pick up this used Model D for $600. Pull up to the house, she opens the garage door, and I see it.....the wooden handle So I know immediately it's the Model C. Now, $600 is a decent price for a used Model C here in Texas, I'm finding out, but I could have driven 15 miles and picked one up in Austin that I had already seen. The chain was visibly rusty, but while I was there I looked it up and saw how cheap they are ($18), so I figured it wasn't a deal breaker. Felt smooth when I tried it out, but I had to let her know it was a Model C, not the Model D she thought it was. She asked what the difference was, and I explaned Cs were made between '93-'03 and that Ds are the current models made from '03-present.

She apologized that she was mistaken (I couldn't see anywhere on the rower what model it was) and offered to knock off $200. I already had my heart set on a Model D, but I figured for $400, it was well worth the trip. Think I'm probably going to get a new chain, even though this one seems to be working fine, and the ergonomic handle (think the chain comes with chain oil?).

Would this be a good resource to figure out what else I should look for before I order just in case there's other stuff that I should get?....or should I just call Concept2 and talk to them?

I did have to at least check it out when I got home, and I have to say that rowing is EXHAUSTING! I've only rowed about 750m prior to this (250 when they showed us at CrossFit how to do it and another 500 as part of the workout of the day), and I decided I'd start off by getting my 2000m time....yeah, easier said than done. Took me 12:15, and my right arm felt like it might fall off about 1000m in

Whole family got home and tried it out (kids have already rowed a 500m and 1000m - they're 7 and 10. Too young?) and we had a 500m contest. About halfway through I thought I might break 2:00, but about 7/16 of the way through I quickly realized I was about out of gas. Coasted in with a 2:12 500m.

You can probably tell from my rambling I'm pretty jazzed about the whole rowing thing. Heck, got our butts kicked at CrossFit this morning and I didn't think I'd be checking out the rower until tomorrow, but I just couldn't wait.

Thanks in advance for all the knowledge and advice I'm sure the get from this great forum (and if I'm wondering where to gamble for free on the internet, some dude posted about 20 times to help me out).

Peace!

[Citroen]

You've also saved enough $$$ to upgrade from the PM2 to a PM3 (or PM4).
A PM3/PM4 will get you online and rowiing with RowPro (for another $99).

The model C machines in the gym I use have been there as long as I've been a member, they've had new chains, new sprockets, new handles and the PM2s upgraded to PM3s. I've rowed 14,000,000 and they're still going strong.

First thing to do is check the PM2 mileage, see http://www.concept2.com/us/service/monitors/pm2/, second thing is open the fan cage and see how much dust and cruft is in there, clean it out.

Then work on technique, technique and more technique.

[GlassJoe]

Thanks for the input, Citroen.

I checked the mileage when I went to look at the machine (271K), so on to checking out the fan cage. I was confused at first because I was expecting a high mileage because I figured it would show total meters. I didn't realize it converted it to kilometers since the 271 didn't have a "k" after it.

Wasn't sure I wanted to upgrade to the PM3 (about $160, right?). Is the main difference being able to get online? I figured competing against my own times would be plenty to start off with. I'd guess rowing online is a lot more fun, though. I do like playing games online....so perhaps the entertainment value will transfer over.

What are your thoughts on the rust on the chain? It seems fine where it wasn't exposed to the garage air once you pull it out, so I guess that's why everything still seems okay, but it bugs me a bit, and for $18, if it's not too difficult, I figured I would just replace it. I really can't believe how inexpensive all the parts are. I can see why folks rave about these Concept2 machines.

Thanks again for the help, Citroen.

[redzone]

Welcome Glassjoe. Have to ask, is that a Super Punch Out handle?

[GlassJoe]

Ding ding ding....we have a winner.

Yeah, I've used it for as long as I can remember on forums. Started back in the '90s when someone took me to play laser tag. Everyone needed a "call sign." Bunch of Ice, Goose, Maverick, Killa, Shreader type names, so I went with one that I knew would strike fear into the hearts of all that knew of Punchout....Glass-freakin-Joe.

[chgoss]

Welcome Glassjoe!

[Citroen]

I checked the mileage when I went to look at the machine (271K), so on to checking out the fan cage. I was confused at first because I was expecting a high mileage because I figured it would show total meters. I didn't realize it converted it to kilometers since the 271 didn't have a "k" after it.

271,000m is a very small distance, looks like it's been used as an ornamental piece of furniture.

Wasn't sure I wanted to upgrade to the PM3 (about $160, right?). Is the main difference being able to get online? I figured competing against my own times would be plenty to start off with. I'd guess rowing online is a lot more fun, though. I do like playing games online....so perhaps the entertainment value will transfer over.

Don't know the dollar price, it's £204.25 here. The "fish game" isn't something to get excited about. It's the easy logging of metres and RowPro that you'll gain. It's very lonely bashing away metres in your garage and can lead to selling the machine with just 271K on the clock for less than you paid (if you brought it new). If it has a PM2+ with the RS232 interface you can get online with RowPro with that, but PM2+ monitors are very rare.

What are your thoughts on the rust on the chain? It seems fine where it wasn't exposed to the garage air once you pull it out, so I guess that's why everything still seems okay, but it bugs me a bit, and for $18, if it's not too difficult, I figured I would just replace it. I really can't believe how inexpensive all the parts are. I can see why folks rave about these Concept2 machines.

First thing to do is clean it off, oil it (whole length) and see how it goes. If the machine runs smooth and has no stiff links then you can probably leave it until there's a few million metres on the clock.

[GlassJoe]

Thanks for the advice, Citroen.

I'm not exactly sure what "stiff links" are, though. The first time I ever used a rowing machine was eight days ago, so I'm not sure exactly what I'm feeling. I did go 20 minutes today (only covered 3100m on resistance 4) and then later had a little 500m contest with my nephew (2:00:08 for him....2:00:06 for me - sup!).

One thing I notice is it seems that when I'm rowing, the first 3-4" of the stroke seems to have little or no tension on it before it "kicks in" so to speak. I feel like I'm getting a good ab and upper body workout when I row, but I feel like I should be getting more "wind noise" from the machine while I'm pushing off with my legs. I might just be doing something wrong, but does this "slack" or "delay" make sense to anyone? It doesn't always feel like it's there, and maybe I'm just not exploding with my legs enough. I do have a CrossFit class tomorrow morning, though, so I guess I can just ask them....but I can't help but ask you guys - I'm floored by how knowledgeable and passionate the people in this forum are.

As an aside, I seriously have no idea how you people can cover 2k in seven minutes. That's 1:45 splits, and I'm not sure I've yet to see that on my split time so far....and you do it for 2k!? Unreal.

[Citroen]

I'm not exactly sure what "stiff links" are, though.

With a chain each link has to rotate around the two pins if that doesn't happen you'll feel a bump every time the stiff link goes over the sprocket.

[Citroen]

One thing I notice is it seems that when I'm rowing, the first 3-4" of the stroke seems to have little or no tension on it before it "kicks in" so to speak.

Two ways to solve that.

1. Try a higher drag, around 130 rather than 110.
2. Tighten the shock cords, there should be 6-8lbs of pull on the handle at the catch.
http://www.concept2.com/us/support/manu ... stment.pdf

[Bob S.]

One thing I notice is it seems that when I'm rowing, the first 3-4" of the stroke seems to have little or no tension on it before it "kicks in" so to speak.

Two ways to solve that.

1. Try a higher drag, around 130 rather than 110.
2. Tighten the shock cords, there should be 6-8lbs of pull on the handle at the catch.
http://www.concept2.com/us/support/manu ... stment.pdf

I don't know about that. To me it sounds like there is a lack of the "explosive drive" with the legs at the start of the drive. Some describe it as being like leaping into the air from a squatting position. And, of course, the arms should stay straight and the body angle should not decrease - the shoulders should go back as fast or faster than the hips.

Bob S.

[Cyclist2]

True, getting your form correct reduces that short dead time at the catch - that is the important point. However, there will always be a small gap there because the chain and cog have to catch up with the flywheel since it is a mechanical ratchet. To illustrate this in the extreme, take a few hard strokes to get the flywheel moving, then take one drive part of a stroke very, very slowly. It will be totally dead time, with the only resisting force being the shock cord tension. (This is like soft pedaling a bike - the pedals are going around but no force is being applied). It is just the nature of the machine. It's not as pronounced as it was with my model A, where they used an actual bicycle cog and the ratchet was very slack.
Regarding the rusty chain. The first couple feet from the handle to where it disappears into the machine are not used for propulsion, don't flex around the cog, and are exposed to the elements all the time, so it really doesn't matter if it is "too" rusty or not. Clean it up, make sure it is safe, but spend your maintenance time on the chain inside the machine where stiff links and poor lubrication can really be detrimental.