Concept2 Forum

Hello everyone! I'm using the term Beginner a little loosely here as I've owned my Model D for 5 years now. However, this is the first season where I've actually rowed enough meters to start seeing decent improvement and the first season where I'm actually kind of excited about rowing! I've enjoyed it in the past, but now I'm more interested in steady improvement. Turning 50 this past October may have something to do with - who knows?

Anyway, this past Monday - after my first 10k in a while on Sunday - I noticed some soreness in my upper biceps tendons (both sides relatively equally), so have laid off the rowing for a bit to let that settle. Some of my teammates suggested I might have some (unknown-to-me) issues with my rowing form and suggested making a video for folks to comment on should they desire.

If I have things wrong with my form (especially if it could lead to the sore tendon issue), I'd love to start working on it. Mind taking a look?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_0eiprSzc

From the Description:

A short video showing a 2:05/500M pace at two different SPM's - 1st 60sec at 20spm, 2nd 60 sec at 24spm. Each pace features 10 seconds of slo-mo about 1/2-way through.

No wonder you have bicep soreness. You begin serious pulling with your arms shortly after launching from the catch. The arms are only stabilizers at that point. Arms come into play near the end of the stroke. Legs only during first half.

Drag is too high, stopping the flywheel so you get that arm jerk/slam at the catch which could be a part of your tendon problem. Suggest you drop drag to zero, to see how it's done and take it really smooth and relaxed - flow like oil - then increase drag slightly if you can't deliver as much power as you want to.

With lower drag and smoother action you can take the catch with the legs rather than trunk or arms, and so get a slightly longer net stroke. Your posture already allows it.

Things I see, stroke to short, you should come up much on the balls of the feet (edit, thx Bob) the to get a full stroke,
2 td, you lack connection at the start of the drive, your arms should be straight, you now have slack at the start of the drive.
3td, you give a yerk with your arms/back at the begin of your drive, both arms and back should do nothing there, the legs should push and only later the back/arms should come in. This would be more much more fluent.

Mostly, not comming up enough on the slide and missing the connection when you start the drive.

i like the music...

not enough legs -or the arms are taking the pull at the beginning making a lot of the leg power obsolete...

Thank you very much for the generous feedback, folks. Definitely gives me some things to think about. I tried some legs-only drills today and it helped some, I think. I then went to full strokes and was getting a pretty good pace (for me) at what seemed like less effort. It's funny when you're trying to correct multiple things as it seems my mind is only able to focus on one at a time, so the other bad habit or two tries to sneak in while I'm working on the other. Iterative process, I imagine!

Once you get the catch sequence sorted, your technique will be fine. The point here is that on a static erg we have to accelerate our entire mass to chain speed asap. Since the strongest muscles are in the legs, this happens quickest if we use them, so allowing a longer net stroke; more length means less force for the same power.

Low drag. Boats and flywheels go fast, no one pulls 100 ton barges or warships by hand any more. We don't want to go slow so there's no point in using high drag. Scullers sometimes pull a piece of rope or wind a cord round the hull to increase drag for specific work, but I can't see anyone being fond of it. My sculls are hard enough without pulling anything else.

The two pieces you showed had different stroke work (Watts/Rating), 9.0 the first and 7.5 the second. This is a big difference. At 9 you looked somewhat uncomfortable, so 8 could suit you for now for LSS. This number x Rating = Power on the monitor.

The Interactive training schedules for 2k racing are here http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/training/interactive and have plenty of variety. If you don't intend to race, the first half will keep you fit. They use Watts or HR to govern how we stay in the training bands.

Thanks, jamesg - some very good information to absorb there.

jamesg wrote:Low drag. Boats and flywheels go fast, no one pulls 100 ton barges or warships by hand any more. We don't want to go slow so there's no point in using high drag. Scullers sometimes pull a piece of rope or wind a cord round the hull to increase drag for specific work, but I can't see anyone being fond of it. My sculls are hard enough without pulling anything else.

Up until a couple of weeks ago, I was using a DF of 100, but I felt nearly nothing in my legs on the drive, so I upped it to 115 (where it's at in the video). It 'felt' much better to me and seemed to increase my speed. I'm not sure what I'm looking for here, but it seems - mentally anyway - that I need my legs to feel some resistance on the drive in order to feel that I'm accomplishing something. I've read a lot about DF, but recommendations are all over the map. When you say "low drag", how low do you mean? I'm definitely willing to experiment.

The two pieces you showed had different stroke work (Watts/Rating), 9.0 the first and 7.5 the second. This is a big difference. At 9 you looked somewhat uncomfortable, so 8 could suit you for now for LSS. This number x Rating = Power on the monitor.

Took me a minute to figure out how you got these numbers until I found the Watts Calculator on the C2 website. What is "LSS" though?

The Interactive training schedules for 2k racing are here http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/training/interactive and have plenty of variety. If you don't intend to race, the first half will keep you fit. They use Watts or HR to govern how we stay in the training bands.

Oh, that looks fun! I don't currently intend to race, but who knows what the future brings? I liked participating in my first CTC last month (Jan 2016).

Start here: http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38&start=15

Make your video look like the animation. Its a lot harder than it looks, especially to maintain for any length of time.

Unless your training for on the water dont worry about where drag is, put it where its comfortable and go with it. You taller so zero damper may be fine, I have to move so fast at 0 I have no control.

I need my legs to feel some resistance on the drive

Resistance is the force we produce, first to accelerate our mass to chain speed and then to drive the flywheel. This is best done with the legs, which are strong and have a relatively long action using the slide. It's done consciously and quickly to engage the chain as soon as possible. If you use Watts, you can see the effect on the monitor.

Drag factor 115 is fine, I thought your damper setting would provide a higher drag, my mistake.

LSS is long (> 5k), slow (rating), steady, enough alone to keep fit but some variety helps, as in the Interactives.

Hello all - I ended up taking a week off rowing, but have been back at it for the last two with no bicep pain. I feel like I've improved my technique based on the feedback here though I haven't done a new video to prove it yet...

One thing I did was took jamesg's suggestion to drop the DF to 0. It's been interesting in that as I got used to it, it became my new norm. However, the last few rows, I've been toying around with bumping up the DF, and it seems to make me faster (measured by average pace over the piece). I typically limit my upper heartrate, but at a higher DF, it seems I'm able to do more work at the same HR. That tells me I may have some fine-tuning to do.

My question is - is there an accepted method of experimenting with DF to find your "best" setting? I don't want to just bounce around searching for the imaginary utopia DF if there's a proven way to get kind of close. I'm just a little unclear what to look for. I know DF is a pretty personal preference, but I'm wondering what that preference is predicated on.