Strapless @ 50spm

[Bob S.]

Forgot to mention this when I reported on my most recent workout. Since it was a time trial, I did 10’ each of warm up and cool down instead of the usual 5’ each. In the warm up I wanted to get in some high rate work and decided to do some short bursts at various rates. I set the 10’ up with 20” splits to get out the maximum available (i.e. 30). I started out the 1st minute at 15spm and then did a high rate burst in the 4th 20” split. I repeated on the 10th, 15th, 21st, and 25th splits. In between the bursts I used various rates ranging from 18-24spm and I finished off the last 4 splits at 15spm.

The rates and paces of these bursts were:

1st: 42spm @ 1:56.2
2nd: 30spm @ 2:08.2
3rd: 39spm @ 1:57.6
4th: 30spm @ 2:05.0
5th: 48spm @ 1:48.6

With the warm up over, I set the monitor for 6k, turned up the fan and got started. About a minute and a half into it, I realized that I still had my vest on. The garage was cold, but there was no way that I could complete the time trial with the vest on – so – it was a case of stop rowing, stop the monitor, reset the monitor, take off the vest, and get back to the time trial. Just as I was about to start, I realized that I had forgotten to strap in. I almost always row strapless on the erg nowadays, but for time trials and intervals, where I expect to go at high rates, I always strap in (if I remember to do it, that is). I slipped the straps on and tightened them, but as I did so, it occurred to me that I had not used them in the warm up and yet I had taken the rate up to over 50spm in that last burst, averaging 48spm for the whole 20” split with no problems whatsoever. I had no intention of going anywhere near that rate in the time trial, so why would I need to strap in? I loosened the straps, pulled out of them and just went ahead as usual.

There was a time when I had trouble rowing strapless at any rates above 24spm, but now I seem to be completely acclimated to strapless rowing at any rate that I can reach.

[luckylindy]

How do you pull yourself forward fast enough to attain 50spm w/o straps?

[mikvan52]

How do you pull yourself forward fast enough to attain 50spm w/o straps?

It is not necessary to pull oneself by means of pressure of the top of the foot against the straps.
Overuse of such a technique would slow a boat down.
This is why the US national team uses slides so much... It eliminates reliance on this kind of pulling... for purposes of faster boat speed.

[peterhowd]

When I am Bob's age, if I make it that far, I can only hope and dream that I will generate the momentum he does! I'd venture that holds for ALMOST all of us out here in awe of what he does.

[Bob S.]

?????? The point is ??????

By definition your rowing better if your rowing with a LOWER spm for a given pace.

For example 20 spm at 1:48 pace is far better than 48 spm at 1:48 pace.

Or am I missing something and it's just your ability to row without straps at high spm ?

It is not a matter of rowing better or worse. It was a matter of curiosity. When I first tried out strapless, some 3 years or so ago, I felt like I might fly off backwards on the first stroke. But I caught on to it quickly with no big problem. That was only at low rates, however. Fair enough - I do a lot of my exercise rowing at 20spm and below, so I continued to go without straps. It was a different matter at higher rates. I felt uneasy at that time at 24spm and up, so I would use them whenever I planned to go at those higher rates. Eventually I found that I could hold 30spm without straps, but I didn't make a habit of doing that. This time I just plain forgot and was astounded when I realized, well after the fact, that I had spotted a rate reading of 50+ and had done it without straps. I guess that it is just a matter of getting used to it.

No real point to all this other than it illustrates that it is possible to row strapless - even at high rates - a fact that newcomers often find hard to believe.

It may well be that if I were younger and pulling a lot harder that it would not work out that way.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

This is why the US national team uses slides so much... It eliminates reliance on this kind of pulling... for purposes of faster boat speed.

Mike,

That brings up a point that I had not thought of. Slides. I have had them for years, but didn't start using them until the start of this season. I have a hunch that the slides make it easier to go at higher rates and they might also make it easier to do them without being strapped in.

Incidentally, this was the first time I ever saw rate readings above the low 40s and I believe that this can be attributed to the use of the slides. I remember that I was quite surprised, on the demo dynamic erg at Boston, that I was rating in the 30s and having trouble getting down into the 20s. It was a similar thing when I started using my slides at home on a regular basis. To get down to 10 and 12 spm I had to do a little propping and some tweaking of the bungees.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

How do you pull yourself forward fast enough to attain 50spm w/o straps?

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that it is my use of slides that made the big difference. The movement of the body is greatly reduced. Most of the movement is that of the erg itself (less the seat) and it weighs a lot less than me. If I were to try it on a grounded erg, I would probably not even be able to get up to 50spm, let alone do it strapless.

Bob S.

[Tinus]

I slipped the straps on and tightened them, but as I did so, it occurred to me that I had not used them in the warm up and yet I had taken the rate up to over 50spm in that last burst, averaging 48spm for the whole 20” split with no problems whatsoever. I had no intention of going anywhere near that rate in the time trial, so why would I need to strap in?

Is the ability to achieve a certain rate important or is it the ability to achieve a certain speed? The former is only indirectly of importance and never determines quality of performance on its own.

reduction to the absurd (I have kept the same logical structure but only substituted one hand for no straps):
If I could rate 50 spm with one hand and have no intention to go near that rate in a trial, why should I still use two hands?

The answer to this question seems obvious to me.

[mikvan52]

I slipped the straps on and tightened them, but as I did so, it occurred to me that I had not used them in the warm up and yet I had taken the rate up to over 50spm in that last burst, averaging 48spm for the whole 20” split with no problems whatsoever. I had no intention of going anywhere near that rate in the time trial, so why would I need to strap in?

Is the ability to achieve a certain rate important or is it the ability to achieve a certain speed? The former is only indirectly of importance and never determines quality of performance on its own.

reduction to the absurd (I have kept the same logical structure but only substituted one hand for no straps):
If I could rate 50 spm with one hand and have no intention to go near that rate in a trial, why should I still use two hands?

The answer to this question seems obvious to me.

high rate can often go hand-in-hand with "short-sliding" the stroke... with great effect.

Watch the French from 4 minutes on in this video... They aren't long on the slide... and they rate higher than the other crews... wow !

http://row2k.com/video/view.cfm?vid=292

[luckylindy]

The more I read about them, the more I want a set of slides.

[jliddil]

From personal experience I can say slides really do allow higher SPM rates with ease. I can do 40-45 SPM easily at a 2:00/500M pace. I try to generally keep my SPM in the low 30 range. Of course the high SPM rate looks weird when I am on Rowpro when others are doing low 20 SPM.

Slides really promote you pushing with your legs and you don't really do the pull back with your feet. I don't cinch my straps down tight anymore. They have helped my technique though that is not saying much since I have so far to go.

Remember slides cost money, they need space and you can't race on slides in official events.

[BradL]

I have tried rowing without straps and found it quite difficult, but since I am not training to row on the water should I bother trying to row without staps? I can see how it would make for a smoother stroke, but probably with a consequent loss of power. Is there a benefit to rowing strapless for a basically unskilled rower looking to row only on the concept 2?

[Carl Watts]

Even though I'm not into OTW, I did watch the World Rowing Champs finals live for a day and to my knowledge based on the commentary, no one was rating over 36spm in the singles and doubles.

36spm is my upper limit if I still want the power per stroke and what I would call the "correct technique", i.e NOT the technique used to get a 500M world record. This rating results in 1:20 pace for me on a model D as they are as smooth as silk and so would rather work on more power per stroke rather than a higher spm. This is going on advice given to me by a good ex-OTW rower anyway, work on getting your rating down while still maintaining boat speed and it's really working for me.

[mikvan52]

I have tried rowing without straps and found it quite difficult, but since I am not training to row on the water should I bother trying to row without staps? I can see how it would make for a smoother stroke, but probably with a consequent loss of power. Is there a benefit to rowing strapless for a basically unskilled rower looking to row only on the concept 2?

I find that there is something similar to a loss of power, that is: Going strapless doesn't allow you to go all-out as easily. But: you don't actually lose power you don't exert... (That's probably what you meant and I'm just splitting hairs)

I see strapless rowing as a drill to prevent you from losing power. Why would one want to exert extra energy pulling oneself back up the slide by means of undue flexing of the chin muscles? (aka dorsi-flexion of the ankle)... It doesn't create speed... Only the drive creates speed.
If anything:plantar flexion (pointing one's toes) with adequate lay-back extends the drive through the release. The release is just that... it should be a coordinated relaxation and not rushed.
This goes for the erg as well as the water.

Naturally, each of us can choose how we like to expend our limited allotments of energy according to our objectives.

[Bob S.]

Have you ever determined your drive time when you are pulling 5.8 SPI?

If you are taking a full stroke, the speed of the chain must be _very_ slow.

In order to stay below 6 SPI, I suspect that you would have to pull with all of your levers simultaneously, rather than initiating the stroke with your legs, and use almost no back swing.

This would be interesting to see.

Do you have a video of your rowing, e.g., strapless, at 30 spm?

ranger

Poor baby isn't getting attention in his cesspool thread so he spreads like a disease to others. Keep your condescending bullshit in your own hell-hole so we don't have to accidentally run into it.

I hadn't read the first quote, but since it was posted in the response, I'll comment on it.

On the back swing, you are correct. I hardly use any. One factor is that my fifth lumbar disc is essentially non-functional. Another is that I have been somewhat kyphotic since my pre-teens and, with the osteoporosis that I have developed in the last decade, the kyphosis is quite pronounced and getting fused in - a regular Quasimoto.

I disagree about the not initiating with the legs. I definitely do the main drive with the legs and have just a light follow through with the arms.

I see no point to posting a video. There would be nothing to be learned from it - not for me nor for anyone else.

There is already a video out, taken by Xeno of me doing a time 2k trial. I was strapped in for that one and probably rarely got up to 30spm in the piece. Also, it was done on a grounded erg.

I am reasonably satisfied with my current technique. I have 10 WRs that are still on record and several others that have since been beaten and, as of yesterday, I was still #1 in the nonathlon with only 9 events posted, i.e. without the 100 point bonus for 10 events.

There is no point in this old dog trying to learn new tricks.

Bob S.