Erg Marathon training -- advice please for newbie (thanks)

[estragon]

Hi everyone -- this is my first post. Thank you for all the contributions to the forum which have kept me entertained and taught me a lot in recent weeks.

Intro
I'm 58, male, and bought my Concept 2 (D) earlier this year, mainly to help weight loss, but have been a bit hit-and-miss with it, largely due to work travel and, ok, I confess, general laziness. But in the last month I've been able to establish a routine, rowing 4-5 times a week for usually 30-45 minutes at a time.

In a previous life I was a recreational marathon runner. Slow (around 4.30-5 hours) but quite happy with that. It was about fitness rather than competitiveness. A big advantage of targeting marathons/half marathons was the motivation it provided, and the structure it gave to my running -- and I'd like to aim for a rowing marathon for the same reason.

Erg marathon training plans
I've struggled to find a good Erg marathon training plan. The Concept2 page (http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... hon-rowing) is useful but basic, and most others I've seen are aimed at competitive/experienced rowers.

Are there any detailed novice marathon plans out there? Ideally, I'm looking for a 20-26 week schedule which would take me neatly from here to the May marathon challenge. The emphasis is on the newbie part, building up steadily to the big day with a good mix of sessions and some explanation along the way.

Creating my own plan Advice re "long run" equivalent
If I can't find what I want, I can create my own schedule. With marathon running training, you mix up your midweek sessions (intervals, tempo etc) but always have a weekend long run that gradually builds up over the period, culminating in one or more final long runs of about 20 miles (32km) before a 2 or 3-week taper towards the big day. Does this work the same for erg marathoning? Building up, say, from 8km to 32km over 20 weeks, with a few step-back weeks here and there? Are there disadvantages with aiming to do 2 or 3 very long rows (30+ km) in the last few weeks of training, or do long rows take more out of you than long runs?

Any thoughts or advice would be very gratefully received.

[heartwood]

Hi estragon. I would take a look at this http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/traini ... thon_intro I have started the 80,000m plan got to week 7 then stopped due to an unwelcome episode of bronchitis -just restarting some MP rows up to 1hr but not pushing hard as HR remains up 10bpm over normal. Plenty of info there, I think you need to think about you target pacing based on your current times as described but be flexible and adjust if the work is then too hard/too easy. I would also suggest you do some HM rows first. Plenty of rowers have commented how hard the last 10k is (I haven't gone beyond 30k yet) but I'm relishing the challenge.

[Bob S.]

Your plan is right on. The key problems of marathon rowing are seat pain and hydration. You should be able to build up fairly quickly to half marathons in which the seat pain is not very bad and you can do the whole thing without a drink stop. The full marathon is a different matter. For that it is advisable to do longer and longer pieces to develop tolerance for butt pain and the ability to get enough hydration with a minimum of stops.

For the seat pain, heat is part of the problem. One helpful measure is to use two small, terry cloth, folded towels with a space between for air flow. That was recommended by Xeno Mueller and I found that it helped a lot. Those last 10 km are still painful, but tolerable. As far as the water is concerned, it is necessary to tank up a lot well ahead of time, of course, but not too much in the last pre-row hour. You don't want to need a pit stop in the middle of the piece. Two to three drink stops during the piece should be enough, but don't gulp down to much - that can lead to discomfort. Try to schedule it when it is quite cool to avoid unnecessary sweating. A lot of rowers feel that they need nutrition during the piece, but it is possible to load up well a few hours before the row. However, it is easy enough to use drinks that have a little sugar and electrolytes for the drink stops. Some folks find that it helps to actually get off the erg and stretch for a few seconds on those drink breaks. Others have worked out systems for getting a drink on the fly without any break at all in the stroke. One way to do that is to have a tube hanging from a reservoir, grab the tube with one hand, and continue to row with the other. If you are not trying to compete, but just finish with a decent time, that is probably too extreme. There are a lot of other little tricks that have been developed and, no doubt, there will be some other responses to this thread that will describe them.

Bob S.

[Galeere]

Hi estragon, welcome aboard.
I don´t have experience with running training for marathons but what you describe will ammost certainly work for erging too. I reckon the following differences though:
1. Long rows can be very tough on your gluts/on your butt. Seat cushion is well advised as well as specific glutes training. And building up distances like described.
2. Similar problems with blisters. I had plenty of trouble with those in the beginning. Now with a shifting and hook-type grip it´s better.
3. Erging uses up more energy (or so I have read elsewhere). So glycogen reservoirs are likely to get depleted faster. So a close look at your diet and fill-ups within 30minutes after training is advisable.
Good luck with your training!

[estragon]

I would take a look at this http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/traini ... thon_intro I have started the 80,000m plan got to week 7 then stopped due to an unwelcome episode of bronchitis -just restarting some MP rows up to 1hr but not pushing hard as HR remains up 10bpm over normal. Plenty of info there, I think you need to think about you target pacing based on your current times as described but be flexible and adjust if the work is then too hard/too easy. I would also suggest you do some HM rows first. Plenty of rowers have commented how hard the last 10k is (I haven't gone beyond 30k yet) but I'm relishing the challenge.

Thanks -- that's just the sort of thing i was looking for. In fact, I did find that site last week but hadn't realised there was so such detail there. I've now had more of a probe and found more information. As for pace, I'm trying not to get too bogged down in stats at this stage. I need to keep working on stamina and endurance for a while yet, and pace calculations can come in later. Yes, HMs are on the cards as part of the training. If running is anything to go by, I fully endorse the comment about the last 10K. You may be aware of that well-worn axiom that "the half way point of the marathon is 20 miles" (32K). There is a lot of truth in that.

Your plan is right on. The key problems of marathon rowing are seat pain and hydration......
Bob S.

Thanks Bob -- the seat pain is one area that's new to me but of course hydration is always a major issue with marathon running, and one I understand. As a non-competitive rower, I'm not expecting hydration to pose much of a logistical challenge. I can line up enough fluids alongside the erg and pick them up when needed. Thanks for the tip about the two towels. Butt pain is the sort of thing I'm expecting to come across and learn to deal with during the training.

Hi estragon, welcome aboard.
..........
1. Long rows can be very tough on your gluts/on your butt. Seat cushion is well advised as well as specific glutes training. And building up distances like described.
2. Similar problems with blisters. I had plenty of trouble with those in the beginning. Now with a shifting and hook-type grip it´s better.
3. Erging uses up more energy (or so I have read elsewhere). So glycogen reservoirs are likely to get depleted faster. So a close look at your diet and fill-ups within 30minutes after training is advisable.
Good luck with your training!

Good tip about glutes and targeted strengthening. Regarding blisters, I have some gloves on order which i hope will help. Diet/nutrition sound pretty similar to running needs. I expect to have a few bananas handy alongside. Thanks for the info.

[Bob S.]

Gloves are not used by very many rowers. For most, the hands toughen up well as the meters pile up. With 20 - 26 weeks ahead of you, doing long rows, I doubt that you will find them to be necessary. A number of ergers report that sweat is a problem and use gloves that help them with that. If you have to row in high heat and/or humidity that might be a consideration.

Bob S.