Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

JimR--

You have no evidence that bears on the issue.

ranger

[JimR]

JimR--

You have no evidence that bears on the issue.

ranger

I'm not sure which issue you are referring to, you have many. My current issue of interest is why you claimed Mike C. did something he clearly could not have done?

In fact, you claim to know many things about others that you could not know or the person can show you are wrong.

So we come full circle ... why do you lie so much?

Perhaps you don't think of it as lying ... poetic license perhaps.

JimR

[mikvan52]

Mike (VB)--

If your HR is pushing up over your anaerobic threshold after 10 minutes of rowing 1:58 at low rates, what is your UT2 pace these days?

What pace can you do for 90min @ 22 spm, steady state, with a HR of 125 bpm (70% HRR).

Is your UT2 pace now way up over 2:00 pace?

2:00 pace is UT2 for a 7:00 2K.

2:00 @ 22 spm is only 9 SPI.

Yea.

Getting old is a bummer.

If you don't use it, you lose it.

Most 60s lwts pull 9 SPI.

The 60s lwt FM WR is 2:00 pace (2:48).

ranger

# 1: dump the SPI analysis. IT is a non-starter: most everything you've said about it for (now many) years is a fabrication.
#2: "If you don't use it you lose it" is true but what is also true is "IF YOU USE IT, YOU STILL LOSE IT" (just less so)

Let's go to any basic anatomy and physiology text.
I cite Martini Fundamentals of Annatomy and Physiology 5th edition page 837
Section: Aging and the Respiratory System
Figure 23-29
Aging and the Decline in Respiratory Performance

This figure shows, among other things, how respiratory performances decreases with ALL as they age.

In the text it says:

"Many factors interact to reduce the efficiency of the respiratory system in elderly individuals. Three examples are
particularly noteworthy:

1> As age increases, elastic tissue deteriorates throughout the body. This deterioration reduces the compliance of the lungs, lowering the vital capacity.

2> Chest movements are restricted by arthritic changes in the rib articulations and by decreased flexibility at the costal cartilages. Along with the changes in item 1, the stiffening and reduction in chest movement effectively limit the respiratory minute volume. This restriction contributes to the reduction in exercise performance and capabilities with increasing age.

3> Some degree of emphysema is normal in individuals over the age of 50. However, the extent varies widely with the lifetime exposure to cigarette smoke and other respiratory irritants."

My guess, Rich, is that you did not know this prior to your formulation of any ranger theories on the same subject.
Would you like to revise any of your blanket statements now that you've learned something new? I refer to your "I'm much better than that now" symphony (ranger age 52 vs ranger age 60).

Think for a moment: VO2 max decreases with age because of changes in the tissues that occur outside the realm of training.

Rich: You and I are over the tipping point. One huge reason we cannot get faster is because of the fundamentals of aging. No additional amount of training combined with better technique will radically alter our times. IOW: 6:41 CANNOT become a 6:16. We can row more efficiently etc. but it will not offset age.

It is somewhat amusing to watch newbies, also uninstructed in exercise physiology and aging, react to your wild claims with their cautious skepticism. If they were armed with what I've detailed above, they'd know that what you propose as your "upper limit" is crap.

You and I cannot generate the watts needed to go 6:16 on the erg because we are not young enough.

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Now to answer your direct questions about me.
Due to injury/overuse and the pain associated with it, I decided to take time off from erg training: from mid-December to February 1... I lost conditioning. I am now training again.

Just prior to my break I rowed the 2k on 2 occasions: These were not full effort pieces. I rowed them at rates lower than I ordinarily do in competition. The times were each 4 or 5 seconds faster than 7:00 and were during a "recovery" part of the training year. I wasn't going all out, hadn't sharpened, etc. I posted the better one in the rankings.
As you know, since 2008 I have never turned in a competitive erg time slower than 1:49.9 and I have never handled-down or complained about "running out of gas". I am pretty consistent.
My 500m time before the break was in the 1:30 - 1:31 ranger it is now 1:35.
I weigh 158-162 lbs again having gone up to 168 during my resting weeks.

I no longer can reliably state my AT because the prior test was done in 2008. As an older man I would need to be tested again to really know what it is. As it is I am slowing on the comeback trail.

The good news is that in all these last 4 years of strenuous training, I am still getting marginally faster on the water.
...and this is my primary area of focus. I have won most everything in my age group. I now focus on winning the HOCR in the 60-69 open group (2012). This age group is, as you know, handicapped for age, unlike the 50-59. You will have a chance to "beat" me there in 2012 because you will be spotted 14 seconds. I will go off at "scratch".
In any respect winning will be difficult to do as lwts seldom win the HOCR in their open events ... unlike CRASH-B.

My "mantra": If I were to assiduously concentrate exclusively to the stationary erg, I would destroy my form for moving a boat.

Now will you answer a simple question for me. Are you going to erg at CRASH-B this coming weekend? If so, which weight class?

[Citroen]

# 1: dump the SPI analysis. IT is a non-starter: most everything you've said about it for (now many) years is a fabrication.
#2: "If you don't use it you lose it" is true but what is also true is "IF YOU USE IT, YOU STILL LOSE IT" (just less so)

Mike, why do you bother with the deceased equine flagellation? It's just another way of feeding our troll.

[mikvan52]

# 1: dump the SPI analysis. IT is a non-starter: most everything you've said about it for (now many) years is a fabrication.
#2: "If you don't use it you lose it" is true but what is also true is "IF YOU USE IT, YOU STILL LOSE IT" (just less so)

Mike, why do you bother with the deceased equine flagellation? It's just another way of feeding our troll.

I like that ! : deceased equine flagellation

Truth falls on deaf ears.. yet shall set you free.

click for a representation of a true riddle

ranger's saga is not even a riddle, like that of the Sphinx'....

Dougie: You know you don't want this thread to end, we both wallow in its perversity!

[bellboy]

# 1: dump the SPI analysis. IT is a non-starter: most everything you've said about it for (now many) years is a fabrication.
#2: "If you don't use it you lose it" is true but what is also true is "IF YOU USE IT, YOU STILL LOSE IT" (just less so)

Mike, why do you bother with the deceased equine flagellation? It's just another way of feeding our troll.

I like that ! : deceased equine flagellation

Truth falls on deaf ears.. yet shall set you free.

click for a representation of a true riddle

ranger's saga is not even a riddle, like that of the Sphinx'....

Dougie: You know you don't want this thread to end, we both wallow in its perversity!

I prefer wallowing in Cureton's crapulence. We all do it. We know we shouldn't but its our guilty pleasure.

[mikvan52]

Want to check WIRC entries?

CRASH-B erg assignments

Looking at the the 60-64 hwt and lwt (event 13)

Some confusion here. (!)
#1 Spousta is shown as a lightweight entry (clerical mistake?) This man is not small.
#2 ranger is shown as still coming (ranger hasn't let them know the truth of the matter = he isn't going to row)

Notice the return of former WR holder JP Tardieu!

Tore Arne Simonsen (Norway) aka "The Viking" on the C2 UK blog should figure in to the medals. I think he may win.

[Yankeerunner]

Want to check WIRC entries?

CRASH-B erg assignments

Looking at the the 60-64 hwt and lwt (event 13)

Some confusion here. (!)
#1 Spousta is shown as a lightweight entry (clerical mistake?) This man is not small.
#2 ranger is shown as still coming (ranger hasn't let them know the truth of the matter = he isn't going to row)

Notice the return of former WR holder JP Tardieu!

Tore Arne Simonsen (Norway) aka "The Viking" on the C2 UK blog should figure in to the medals. I think he may win.

I noticed those same things (Spousta , Tardieu , The Viking ). Maybe Spousta has been following this thread and thought it would be a good idea to beat ranger at his own game by losing weight and winning the Hwt while bearing a lwt stamp. NOT!

[ranger]

# 1: dump the SPI analysis. IT is a non-starter: most everything you've said about it for (now many) years is a fabrication.

In my last race in 2003, I pulled 6:32 at 10 SPI, fully prepared.

In 2004 and 2005, I worked on technique.

In January 2006, I pulled 6:29.7 at 12 SPI, unprepared, just winging it, because still working on technique.

I am much better than that now.

My sub-6:30 row in 2006 was still at high drag (170 df.?).

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.).

Rowing well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.), I pull 32 spm in a 3-to-1 ratio.

When I am again fully prepared to race, I think I'll now pull sub-6:20 for 2K.

ranger

[macroth]

In January 2006, I pulled 6:29.7 at 12 SPI, unprepared, just winging it, because still working on technique.

After four more years of work on your technique, you pulled 6:41. Hint, hint. Nudge, nudge.

[ranger]

One huge reason we cannot get faster is because of the fundamentals of aging. No additional amount of training combined with better technique will radically alter our times.

Sure it can.

Try rowing a 2K on the erg at max drag, cutting the slide, diving at the catch, and hauling anchor with your back and arms, rather than at low drag and full slide, sitting up tall at the catch and leading with your legs.

The difference in both effectiveness and efficiency is _enormous_.

Sure, physiologically, we are declining by about a second a year over 2K.

I accept that.

So, once I race again for a season or so, fully prepared, rowing well (13 SPI at low drag (119 df.), my times will indeed fall off from there.

The issue is this: How fast will I be when I race again, fully prepared?

We'll soon have some good predictors.

ranger

[lancs]

The issue is this: How fast will I be when I race again, fully prepared?

Somewhere between 6:40 and 6:45.

Although the real issue is when you'll actually be fully prepared. Several years off yet I'd imagine, which is a shame as your 2k times are falling off each year...

[hjs]

The issue is this: How fast will I be when I race again, fully prepared?

Somewhere between 6:40 and 6:45.

Although the real issue is when you'll actually be fully prepared. Several years off yet I'd imagine, which is a shame as your 2k times are falling off each year...

he seems very far away from that level atm. I think he is not even really traininh atm, this season is 100% lost.

1 7.02 and 4 dns, compared to the years before a lot worse....................

The decline is rapidly speeding up.

[hjs]

Sure, physiologically, we are declining

I accept that.

So, once I race again for a season or so, fully prepared, my times will indeed fall off


ranger

You must be 100% sober.

[Bob S.]

Want to check WIRC entries?

CRASH-B erg assignments

Evidently it doesn't include the qualifiers. I don't see Steve Krum or JoanVB on the list.

Bob S.