Ranger's training thread

[Citroen]

You're not maintaining you're heart rate at 160bpm

Yes, I am.

But that won't be the end of it.

My anaerobic threshold is 172 bpm, not 160 bpm.

I can row for an hour with my HR right at my anaerobic threshold.

BTW, my heart rate hit 180 bpm OTBike a few days ago, just riding along, cross-training.

I guess I got too hot.



ranger

The 60s lwt hammer at WIRC 2010 pulled 1:46/7:04.

60min is done at 2K + 10.



ranger

So you could do a 60 min trial at 1:56 avg. pace ... to see if you are positioned to win a hammer at WIRC 2011. I think many would be interested in how that goes.

JimR

JimR - I'd suggest there are actually very few who would be interested. rangerboy's continued lack of class and mendacious character has alienated pretty much everyone. I'd also suggest we allow rangerboy to use this thread as an echo chamber. As I've found to my chagrin, attempting to have an informed, intelligent, respectful conversation with rangerboy isn't possible.

Have you noticed how we're back round the circle and back on page 1 of this thread? It's so very pointless trying to have any form of "informed, intelligent, respectful conversation with rangerboy". He is a troll. You are all feeding him and have been for 641 pages.

[ranger]

A Minor Bird

I have wished a bird would fly away,
And not sing by my house all day;

Have clapped my hands at him from the door
When it seemed as if I could bear no more.

The fault must partly have been in me.
The bird was not to blame for his key.

And of course there must be something wrong
In wanting to silence any song.

--Robert Frost



ranger

[KevJGK]

You're heart would EXPLODE if you were even able to push it over 170. Any old man's heart would. I don't care how conditioned you claim to be. It ain't happening. If it is, prove me wrong old man.

The best athletes in the world (which, you are definitely not one of them), don't hit 180 in their daily 'riding along'. Not to mention the fact, that you haven't seen 180 in probably 25 years.

Whilst I wouldn’t argue with the sentiment of your posts - I think your wrong about his heart rate limits.

This is the HR trace from my warm-up & 2K PB and I'm only 8 years younger than ranger.

[Steve G]

Well, the 1:43 @ 25 spm I am doing in my "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" sessions is as fast as you can row for 2K.

Today, I put in 20K.
ranger

Are you saying that you did 20k, pulling 1:43 @ 25spm the whole time? Congratulations on setting the age group WR 10k on your way to 20k.

I have asked him this a number of times, he states he doesnt now row with breaks, so what is he doing?
Rich how many metres do you do at 1.43 before easing back?

[Byron Drachman]

You're heart would EXPLODE if you were even able to push it over 170. Any old man's heart would. I don't care how conditioned you claim to be. It ain't happening. If it is, prove me wrong old man.

I agree with almost everything you say, but a geezer can have a high heart rate. For one example. I know a man in his late 60's whose heart rate is around 200 when he does easy cycling. The problem is that he has heart disease but not quite to the stage where he gets surgery. I have always had a high max heart rate and after age 70 I have been in the low 180's for short stretches and been in the 170's while doing intervals. Unfortunately, as Fritz Hagerman has pointed out many times, high max heart rate does not indicate fitness or athletic prowess. I believe he did a study and found that max heart rates varied from the 160's to 220's for Olympic rowers. One possibility is that the body might compensate for a lower stroke volume with a higher max heart rate. I don't have the reference but I am pretty sure that Stephen Seiler mentioned that interval training can cause the max heart rate to decrease a little.

[Steve G]

You're heart would EXPLODE if you were even able to push it over 170. Any old man's heart would. I don't care how conditioned you claim to be. It ain't happening. If it is, prove me wrong old man.

I agree with almost everything you say, but a geezer can have a high heart rate. For one example. I know a man in his late 60's whose heart rate is around 200 when he does easy cycling. The problem is that he has heart disease but not quite to the stage where he gets surgery. I have always had a high max heart rate and after age 70 I have been in the low 180's for short stretches and been in the 170's while doing intervals. Unfortunately, as Fritz Hagerman has pointed out many times, high max heart rate does not indicate fitness or athletic prowess. I believe he did a study and found that max heart rates varied from the 160's to 220's for Olympic rowers. One possibility is that the body might compensate for a lower stroke volume with a higher max heart rate. I don't have the reference but I am pretty sure that Stephen Seiler mentioned that interval training can cause the max heart rate to decrease a little.

Byron
One of the UKS top marathon runners in the 80s Charlie Spedding had a max of 159 in his prime, it don't mean a jot!

[ranger]

What matters is %HRR at different paces.

Mike VB and I run the same HR at the same pace.

For example, we both run a HR of around 160 bpm when pulling 1:43.

But my maxHR is 190 bpm and Mike's maxHR is 163 bpm.

Therefore, 1:43 is TR for Mike but middlin' UT1 for me.

The difference between TR and middlin' UT1 is about a dozen seconds per 500m.

ranger

[ranger]

a geezer can have a high heart rate. For one example. I know a man in his late 60's whose heart rate is around 200 when he does easy cycling. The problem is that he has heart disease but not quite to the stage where he gets surgery. I have always had a high max heart rate and after age 70 I have been in the low 180's for short stretches and been in the 170's while doing intervals. Unfortunately, as Fritz Hagerman has pointed out many times, high max heart rate does not indicate fitness or athletic prowess. I believe he did a study and found that max heart rates varied from the 160's to 220's for Olympic rowers. One possibility is that the body might compensate for a lower stroke volume with a higher max heart rate.

Byron--

What's your resting HR?

Mine is 40 bpm.

I don't think you have a low stroke volume if you have a resting HR of 40 spm.

ranger

[ranger]

so what is he doing?

I have told you repeatedly.

Putting in the meters, training my new technique.

I am rowing a lot of 1:43 @ 25 spm, listening to "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy," HR 160 bpm, steady state.

13 SPI, 119 df., 3.8-to-1 ratio

I put in 20K this morning.

I need to push that to 30K.

I also did an hour OTBike with a HR of 160 bpm, steady state, after erging.

I need to push that to two hours.

The rowing has nothing to do with fitness.

It has to do with technical and skeletal-muscular habituation, repetition, relaxation, precision, consistency, unconscious execution, etc.

Putting in the meters, getting used to doing something new.

The goal of the rowing is unconscious, habitual mastery of a certain sort of exceptional technical and skeletal-muscular effectiveness and efficiency.

Most 60s lwts have trained themselves technically and skeletal-muscularly to pull 9 SPI, that is, to do 30% less work per stroke.

That's a disaster.

I have avoided this disaster.

ranger

[ranger]

If Dick Cashin pulls a 2K @ 1:41/6:44 at 15.5 SPI and Mike VB pulls a 2K @ 1:41/6:44 at 9 SPI, Cashin takes 147 strokes while Mike VB takes 240 strokes.



Let's call Mike the eggbeater; and Cashin, the windmill.

ranger

[snowleopard]

I have avoided this disaster.

Really?

http://concept2.co.uk/birc/result_analy ... c_id=37858

[bellboy]

What matters is %HRR at different paces.

Mike VB and I run the same HR at the same pace.

For example, we both run a HR of around 160 bpm when pulling 1:43.

But my maxHR is 190 bpm and Mike's maxHR is 163 bpm.

Therefore, 1:43 is TR for Mike but middlin' UT1 for me.

The difference between TR and middlin' UT1 is about a dozen seconds per 500m.

ranger

If that is the case why dont you pull that 6.16 that you promising for so bleedin long then? Lets not forget your stroke is 30% better than anyone else's aswell. So begs the question? Why did you pull over 7 min at Birc? Why can you only go sub 6.50 twice in a season? After all "your so much better now"! You can pontificate all you want about your bpm,the power of your stroke and any other meaningless shite but the fact remains you will never reach 6.16. Because of the frankly bizarre and haphazhard methods of training i dont think you will go sub 6.40 as a fully fit, fully hydrated HEAVYWEIGHT. We know it. You know it. My Stafford knows it and he is a blithering idiot.

[atklein90]

You're heart would EXPLODE if you were even able to push it over 170. Any old man's heart would. I don't care how conditioned you claim to be. It ain't happening. If it is, prove me wrong old man.

I agree with almost everything you say, but a geezer can have a high heart rate. For one example. I know a man in his late 60's whose heart rate is around 200 when he does easy cycling. The problem is that he has heart disease but not quite to the stage where he gets surgery. I have always had a high max heart rate and after age 70 I have been in the low 180's for short stretches and been in the 170's while doing intervals. Unfortunately, as Fritz Hagerman has pointed out many times, high max heart rate does not indicate fitness or athletic prowess. I believe he did a study and found that max heart rates varied from the 160's to 220's for Olympic rowers. One possibility is that the body might compensate for a lower stroke volume with a higher max heart rate. I don't have the reference but I am pretty sure that Stephen Seiler mentioned that interval training can cause the max heart rate to decrease a little.

I guess I should have qualified my comments a bit...I intended to represent the fact that if he's in as good of shape as he claims to be, his heart rate shouldn't climb that high...and I still think it would explode....or wish maybe....

[atklein90]

Have you noticed how we're back round the circle and back on page 1 of this thread? It's so very pointless trying to have any form of "informed, intelligent, respectful conversation with rangerboy". He is a troll. You are all feeding him and have been for 641 pages.

That's just because we have nothing else to do! Plus it's kind of fun.

Can't wait for the 6:16 tomorrow....

[mikvan52]

If Dick Cashin pulls a 2K @ 1:41/6:44 at 15.5 SPI and Mike VB pulls a 2K @ 1:41/6:44 at 9 SPI, Cashin takes 147 strokes while Mike VB takes 240 strokes.

It's odd that ranger wants me compared with Dick Cashin
I have no hope of matching a 6'7" heavyweight's time on the erg.

If he or ranger would like to face me on the water, that would be another story.

Concept 2 has indicated that for every pound one rower weighs more than another it is worth about 0.4 seconds per 2k... If you want to balance out erg times to reflect OTW times. I bet Cashin has about 50 lbs on me... That's 20 or more seconds... Putting us right in the same ball park even without other considerations.... It not likely that he sculls though, he was an elite sweep rower with some of the highest college credentials you can get..

Lwt and Hwt OTW rowing are two different sports at that level...

All hail Dick Cashin's WR 55 hwt erg mark though! He's an ace.

ranger, on the other hand, is a has-been from the history books whose WRs were eclipsed a long time ago.
I'm beginning to doubt that he'll get one in his 60's the way he's wasting his training on power-burst rowing with breaks.

He has the capability though, as he did when he was 55-59... But, he blew that! 5 years of blather and no WR.... The same will most probably happen in the next 5 years.

It will be great when Roy Brook comes back next year at 60! I bet ranger will go into hiding.... again.