Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

Henry--

All of this is pretty funny coming from you.

You 2K is just a "jog."

What are you up to here?

Odd.

ranger

Pay your debs and stop trying to think, you are made for that. And stop drinking!!!

My former running has some bearing on my erging, but not that much.

So your talk about it is just a red herring.

On the erg, I am just doing a lot of 1:47 @ 24 spm (12 SPI).

Every day.

Day after day.

If I can train myself to do it for two hours, steady state, 80% HRR, I win our bet.

That's much more relevant.

ranger

[ranger]

Rich: Want to see reams of excellence in rowing?

Look at this site:

http://www.rowingone.com/stat_long_dev.fwx

... and these individuals actually show up and compete against others.... Imagine that!

BTW : there are links to event times and athlete bios if you just click on highlighted features on this page.

For instance: If you click on LW1x you'll find Marit van Eupen's string of 7 victories. THen click on the individual events. Then click on her name and you'll find a complete bio....
Impressive stuff!

After you're done looking here, why not write Thomas Poulsen a note to explain how lucky he is to be almost as good as you are?

Sure, ability to move a boat, I think, is worth as much as 10 seconds per 500m, over and above what you can do on the erg.

Then again, what you can do on the erg, I think, is also relevant, and in about the same magnitude.

Touche.

I have the rest of my life to learn to row OTW, and this OTW experience will help my erging.

For the rest of your life, your erg times will just decline.

Touche.

On the erg, this next year, I suspect you will have a hard time pulling 6:50.

Good luck with it.

Your erg times over 2K are now falling off by two seconds a year.

ranger

[ranger]

The major accomplishment that I am aiming for is not absolute but just relative to age.

I am trying to halve the average decline per year over 2K on the erg for a rower between 20 years old and 60 years old.

Historically, this decline has been about a second per year over 2K.

I am trying to lower that to half a second.

ranger

[Steve G]

you just managed to get within 3 hours.

No, 2:50.

I ran 5:20 pace for 8 miles.

I could do 10 x a mile @ 5:00 on the track.

Not sure that's "jogging."

ranger

Was the 5.20 pace during a race?, I dont recall any 8 mile races, no GPS those days, so sub 27 for a 5 mile for you (8K approx race) , 33 odd for 10K.
PS I achieved both at almost 40 years of age, also 35.20 at 50+ for 10K, all verifiable, not if, but, when etc blah blah !

[PaulH]

If I can train myself to do it for two hours, steady state, 80% HRR, I win our bet.

Liar

[ranger]

Was the 5.20 pace during a race?

Yes.

I got second to Dike Stirrett, who is holding the trophy on page 26 of the following:

http://www.pen.eiu.edu/~mtbegich/distan ... e_1-36.pdf

He was an elite runner.

I wasn't.

But at least I could still see him during the race (and at the finish).

He wasn't completely out of sight!



ranger

[ranger]

Sure, ability to move a boat, I think, is worth as much as 10 seconds per 500m, over and above what you can do on the erg.

Then again, what you can do on the erg, I think, is also relevant, and in about the same magnitude.

As I have mentioned before, when Mike VB is rowing well, I suspect that he now approaches, if not realizes, the minimal gap for lightweights of 12 secconds per 500m between his erg times and his OTW times, when rowing at the same rate.

As he has mentioned, too, his OTW SPI is pretty much maximal for his size, etc., the equivalent of pulling 12 SPI on the erg, which he can do, too, if he doesn't trade rate for pace and holds his technique together.

For instance, I suspect that he can do 1:55 @ 27 spm for 2K OTW, the equivalent of 1:43 @ 27 spm (12 SPI) for 2K on the erg.

The only difference between his rowing and the rowing of an elite young lightweight, then, is rate, which falls as a rower loses aerobic capacity with age.

An elite young lightweight would stroke the same but rate 40 spm.

My goal for this next year is to pull 12 SPI on the erg but rate 35 spm rather than 27 spm, as Mike would do at that stroking power.

The difference between us on the erg, then, is just aerobic capacity.

OTW, this difference is another issue entirely.

I am still learning how to get boat speed, given what I can do on the erg with my aerobic capacity.

I am in no hurry to learn.

I have the rest of my life.

I suspect I can gain another 10 seconds per 500m OTW at the same rate, when I can also move a boat at 12 seconds per 500m off of what I can do on the erg stroking at the same rate and pulling 12 SPI.

Then, the only other issue will be the rate I can maintain OTW over various distances given my aerobic capacity when I am rowing well in terms of boat speed..

ranger

[ranger]

At 12 SPI and 80% HRR, on the erg, Mike can only do 18 spm.

I am training with the same stroking power and HRR at 24 spm.

The difference is 72 watts,at these slow paces, about 10 seconds per 500m.

ranger

[hjs]

Apr 02, 2009:
Byron Drachman wrote: Then you will have no problem sending Henry a check for $1000 unless you verify your weight as a lightweight in a manner suitable to Henry and post a sub 6:40 2K with verification code before the end of this month.
Indeed I will.
Just as he will have no problem sending me $3000 when I win both the bets.
We are upstanding folks.
We pay our bets, if we lose.
April 30, 2009:
Yea, time has run out
Oh well.
Don't much feel like doing a 2K, given that I still haven't sharpened for one.
2Ks hurt pretty badly if you aren't ready for them.
Hey, hjs, any possibility of modifying our $1000 bet along the lines of our $3000 bet?
A time extension would be _greatly_ appreciated.
That might be a squarer deal, given my situation (unprepared!).
I need to get sharpened up if I want to be doing 2Ks without a lot of grief.
Training is coming along great--but slowly.
Too slowly, it appears.
One last cry for mercy!

April 30, 2009:
hjs is an ogre
no sympathy
no heart
May 5, 2009:
I am doing trials at the other distances this spring and summer.
If I can't reach my goals in those trials, then I'll pay up for the bet I lost.
June 6, 2010:
hjs wrote:When are you gonna pay your debt to me ?
No worries about that.
You are an up-standing guy.
I am sure you'll pay me the $2000 you will owe me when I reach all of my distance goals this summer.

[ranger]

As I thought might happen, I am finiding 24 spm too easy for my everyday rowing.

If I push my HR up into the 160s, steady state, in my distance rowing, as I would like to do this summer, given that my anaerobic threshold is 172 bpm, I need to rate 27 spm rather than 24 spm.

So be it.

II'll shoot for 27 spm from now on in my everyday rowing.

In my distance rowing, at 27 spm, I use a little lighter stroke with a much snappier recovery.

I would guess what I am feeling is the pull of 10 MPS as the most efficient cadence.

1:45 @ 27 sspm (11 SPI) is a bit above 10 MPS, but not much.

My most comfortable point on the 10MPS ladder is 1:43 @ 29 spm (11 SPI).

I am lovin' the low drag.

You get a lot more 'free" pace at low drag.

The drive is longer but quicker; in response, the recovery is snappier; then you can really take your time on the recovery as the wheel spins freely.

At low drag, 27 spm doesn't feel like a high rate at all because of all the resting you do on the recovery, especially as you approach the catch.

123 df.

In sum, it appears that 1:45 @ 27 spm (11 SPI) is now my "base pace."

Delighted with that.

That's a second per 500m faster than the 60s lwt hammer row at WIRC 2010, which was pulled in 7:04.

I will be a 60s lwt for WIRC 2011 in eight months.

To win my bet with Henry, this summer, I need to do my base pace continuously for a HM.

A HM is done at 2K + 11.

ranger

[ranger]

As you can see from the picture, I don't think that Dike Stirrett could row a lick.

He couldn't weigh more than 130 lbs.

Too short (5'4"?), and not enough upper body strength.

Beautiful running stride, though.

He floats along the ground when he runs, but I think he might struggle on the erg (and/or OTW).

ranger

[ranger]

At least initially, a nice workout for me to try in order to train for a HM at my base pace would be 4 x 5K/6K or 2 x 30min at my base pace.

Rest time between intervals would be irrelevant, given that each interval, give or take a bit, would be a WR performance.

ranger

[ranger]

Elements of boat speed, in order of importance:

(1) athletic ability (aerobic capacity, full body power, endurance, etc.).

(2) training

(3) technique

(4) equipment

(5) rigging

ranger

[ranger]

Yea!

Just heard.

I pick up my new Fluidesign 1x on Monday at noon in Port Huron.

Click on blue.

http://www.rowfluidesign.com/products/singles.php

ranger

[ausrwr]

So, on Tuesday, we hear lots of swearing, splashing, and cries of 'Mayday!'??