Ranger's training thread

[mikvan52]

The basic task for good veteran lightweights is how to get from 1:53 @ 22 spm at UT2 when they are 50 to 1:46 @ 22 spm at UT2 when they are 60 by improving their skeletal-motor and technical abilities.

This week's winner in the brain the size of a walnut division :
is
ranger's "1:46 pace UT2 at age 60"=

Rich: Have you been to "UT heaven" and imbibed in the the elixirs of the fountain of youth?

There are only a few lwts in their late 50's who can maintain 1:46 pace for (say) 5k. I am one... and it wasn't UT, it was AT. You weren't able to do this as a lwt with 5 years of training then.
Enjoy the dreaming, my friend.... (of course you could show us your progress toward this 'goal' (with a screen shot that includes HR)... but you you won't.

anyway....Thanks for the entertainment

[atklein90]

I'd be delighted to be proven wrong

Happy to hear it.

I'll see if I can post some data from my "Steamroller" rowing tomorrow, or if not tomorrow, sometime this weekend.


ranger

How'd that 'Steamroller' session go today? Where's the data? Shouldn't be hard to post. Take a friggin' picture and post it. How hard is that?

[kini62]

I am going to pull a lwt 6:16.

ranger

Are you autistic?

[Citroen]

I am going to pull a lwt 6:16.

ranger

Are you autistic?

Please stop feeding the troll.

[ranger]

There are only a few lwts in their late 50's who can maintain 1:46 pace for (say) 5k. I am one... and it wasn't UT, it was AT.

You can?

Really?

Why don't you rank it, then?

I am working up to some AT 5Ks.

My target is 1:39/16:30.

13 SPI @ 28 spm

The 60s hwt 5K WR is Osterling's 17:10, my pb from back in the fall of 2003.

These were the Open lwt 5Ks ranked last year:

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 5000m | Men's | Lightweight | All Ages | 2010 Season

Elliot Barton 25 torquay de GBR 16:49.2 IND
1 Stuart Bizzarri 42 Kirkcaldy GBR 17:03.2 IND
2 Gregory Cook 39 Bainbridge Island WA USA 17:14.2 C2Log
3 Sam Hayes 21 London GBR 17:18.9 IND
4 Odd Geir Aarrestad 49 Stavanger NOR 17:23.5 IND
5 Hallvard Bjørkelund 18 Bergen NOR 17:29.7 IND_V
5 Pentti Soini 48 Vantaa FIN 17:29.7 IND
7 simon herbert 36 East Sussex GBR 17:29.9 IND
8 Greg Trahar 51 GBR 17:34.4 RACE
9 Nicolas Guzman 36 Mexico MEX 17:36.6 IND
10 Markku Henriksson 46 Oulu FIN 17:37.1 IND

[ranger]

How'd that 'Steamroller' session go today?

Great.

These sessions are now getting longer and longer and easier and easier.

Relaxation is the key.

I am finding ways to get more and more relaxed, especially on the long recoveries.

Lower hands out of the finish is helping, as is a bit of a pause (and regrouping) at prep position before going down the slide.

Sweep-stroking, side to side, now and again, also helps.

30K would be ideal for these sessions, I think.

I'll try to push up to that by the end of the month.

Today:

Nice hour on the Kurt Kinetic at 19 mph, after "Steamrolling" for 20K.

I need to stretch my rides to two hours to make weight by the end of the month.

It would also be ideal to row 30K a day, rather than 20K, I think.

I have always thought that four hours of exercise a day would be perfect.

2 hours rowing, 2 hours biking.

I will try to keep this exercise routine after I retire in a couple of years.

It is tough to keep this schedule for extended periods when you have to work all day, too.

A month or so might be fine, but after that, there just isn't enough time and energy to get it done.

ranger

[mikvan52]

There are only a few lwts in their late 50's who can maintain 1:46 pace for (say) 5k. I am one... and it wasn't UT, it was AT.

You can?

Really?

Why don't you rank it, then?

RANKING RESULTS 2008
| 5000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (55–59) | 2008 Season


#1
Michael van Beuren 55 Hartland VT USA 17:49.1 IND_V

2 Rolf Meek 57 Oslo NOR 18:00.2 IND
3 dennis hastings 57 USA 18:16.1 IND
4 gregory brock 59 santa cruz ca USA 18:19.5 IND
5 Ed Pabst 58 Terre Haute IN USA 18:26.8 IND


Rich:

A 17:40.1 5k works out to 1:46.9 pace.

Your turn ☺ !

Oh, that's right: you're "working up to it"
If you're working up to it: what do you have this week, year, last five years;...

[bellboy]

There are only a few lwts in their late 50's who can maintain 1:46 pace for (say) 5k. I am one... and it wasn't UT, it was AT.

You can?

Really?

Why don't you rank it, then?

RANKING RESULTS 2008
| 5000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (55–59) | 2008 Season


#1
Michael van Beuren 55 Hartland VT USA 17:49.1 IND_V

2 Rolf Meek 57 Oslo NOR 18:00.2 IND
3 dennis hastings 57 USA 18:16.1 IND
4 gregory brock 59 santa cruz ca USA 18:19.5 IND
5 Ed Pabst 58 Terre Haute IN USA 18:26.8 IND


Rich:

A 17:40.1 5k works out to 1:46.9 pace.

Your turn ☺ !

Oh, that's right: you're "working up to it"
If you're working up to it: what do you have this week, year, last five years;...

I think that we can safely say that Michael has thrown down the gauntlet. Over to you Captain Chaos!

[ranger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt0_oPPK6eA



ranger

[ranger]

There are only a few lwts in their late 50's who can maintain 1:46 pace for (say) 5k. I am one... and it wasn't UT, it was AT.

RANKING RESULTS 2008
| 5000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (55–59) | 2008 Season

#1
Michael van Beuren 55 Hartland VT USA 17:49.1 IND_V

2 Rolf Meek 57 Oslo NOR 18:00.2 IND
3 dennis hastings 57 USA 18:16.1 IND
4 gregory brock 59 santa cruz ca USA 18:19.5 IND
5 Ed Pabst 58 Terre Haute IN USA 18:26.8 IND

Ah.

I thought you meant now.

If you don't do anything about it, decline with age among veterans is 4.25 seconds per year over 5K, so after three years, about 13 seconds over 5K

17:49 is not 1:46.

18:01 isn't either.

18:01 is 1:48.

To do 1:46 for 5K, you would have to be able to do 1:41/6:44 for 2K.

Can you?

We'll soon see (at WIRC 2011).

At WIRC 2010, it was 6:50.

If you don't do anything about it, decline with age among veterans is 1.7 per year over 2K.

So, I expect that you'll pull about 1:43/6:52 this year.

I am now doing 1:42 @ 26 spm (12.7 SPI) in my "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" sessions.

ranger

[goblin]

Sure. Like ranger, you can do something about it - never test yourself at those distances.

And if you slowed down by, say, 20 seconds - make excuses.

[Steve G]

I am now doing 1:42 @ 26 spm (12.7 SPI) in my "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" sessions.

Great rowing Rich, how many metres do you actually do at the at pace without a break? You could perhaps rank some of them, is it at least 2K, if so that is a 6.48 2K, pretty good rate restricted! Decent time for a 60+ HW

Steve
60 64 kgs

[ausrwr]

Well, he could try for 500 metres, but he can't.

Thus, more posturing and projections and priapism from the piss-ant, piss-weak, puerile "sage" of Ann Arbor.

Over to you, dopey. (And because you are a sub-moronic cretin, that means you: Assoc. Prof R.C. Cureton)

500, 2k, 5k?

Can't do any of them fast or at your nominated SPI, can you?

You represent a hopefully unique dead end in human evolution, where the arsehole is connected directly to the speech centre of the brain.

Would that the heart was connected to the muscles and brain, we'd either see a decent performance, or a man doing the decent thing and leaving the erg scene. Instead, we're left with a very rough approximation of a human pretending that he's still any good.

A total oxygen thief.

[Nosmo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt0_oPPK6eA



ranger

Never mind what you do on the erg, but do you actually like that song?

[ranger]

Re: Stroke Rate and Perceived effort
by ranger » February 5th, 2011, 2:58 am

As jamesg points out, rating depends on technique and drag, and only then on finding a maximally comfortable combination of rate and pace for your personal use.

If you can master the skills required and have the athleticism to get it done, it seems clear that the best drive is quick and brief, but long, done at low drag.

Paradoxically, doing a stroke of this sort, you don't work as long, and therefore rest longer, even though the stroke gets more work done per stroke cycle.

There is no way to experience the effectiveness and efficiency of a stroke of this sort until you master the skills required and develop the skeletal-motor habits involved.

And that's the rub.

As you describe in your own case, most people just deploy what skills and skeletal-motor habits they have at the moment, without taking the time to learn to row well at low drag with this quick and brief, but long, drive, and using these very limited skills and inappropriate/inefficient habits, see what rate and stroking power is optimal for them at some distance.

That is, in their training, they fix/assume/ignore their technique and adjust other variables to whatever it might be.

This a _huge_ mistake.

It makes it so that most rowers never get anywhere near experiencing the effortless effectiveness and efficiency of good rowing.

They row with a short, heavy, sluggish drive, and then lunge down the slide after a brief rest to do it again--and think that this is the best way to go.

They're wrong, but have no experience that bears upon the issue, and so continue blithely on, not knowing that they are wrong.

In their training, then, they just focus on improving their fitness.

They never learn to row well, and while they put in millions of meters in their training, day after day, month after month, year after year, they never get any better at rowing.

They work their asses off, but remain wildly ineffective and inefficient doing the work that the sport requires.

Another word for being wildly ineffective and inefficient in rowing is this one:

SLOW

ranger