2k excellence?

[Jamie Pfeffer]

In the garage a set of stairs usually all turn in one direction and it is easy to overuse one leg when running them. If your lucky enough to have two sets of stairs with opposite helix use them both equally. Otherwise don't push the pace because then you'll be really tempted to over use one leg going around the turns.

That makes a lot of sense to me, Nosmo. Runner's World had an article a few months ago recommending the treadmill for hill running. Treadmills don't work well for me for short hill sprints. But for anything longer than, say, 30 seconds, they're great.

[Bob S.]

That makes a lot of sense to me, Nosmo. Runner's World had an article a few months ago recommending the treadmill for hill running. Treadmills don't work well for me for short hill sprints. But for anything longer than, say, 30 seconds, they're great.

The problem with treadmills is that the elevation gain is fake. You do have to raise your feet a bit higher, but you can do that by high stepping with the TM level. There is also probably a little more work done in bobbing the body up and down, but, unlike going up a flight of stairs, there is no real, measurable work done, i.e. mgh work. I have never used a stationary stair stepper (at 83 my knees are shot), but I suppose that they provide some sort of resistance to pushing the steps down that simulates elevating the weight of the body. From what I observed of the reactions of the people that first used the new one in the fitness center that I go to, it seems to be very effective. The users made strong comments about how tough it was.

Bob S.

[Nosmo]

That makes a lot of sense to me, Nosmo. Runner's World had an article a few months ago recommending the treadmill for hill running. Treadmills don't work well for me for short hill sprints. But for anything longer than, say, 30 seconds, they're great.

The problem with treadmills is that the elevation gain is fake. You do have to raise your feet a bit higher, but you can do that by high stepping with the TM level. There is also probably a little more work done in bobbing the body up and down, but, unlike going up a flight of stairs, there is no real, measurable work done, i.e. mgh work. I have never used a stationary stair stepper (at 83 my knees are shot), but I suppose that they provide some sort of resistance to pushing the steps down that simulates elevating the weight of the body. From what I observed of the reactions of the people that first used the new one in the fitness center that I go to, it seems to be very effective. The users made strong comments about how tough it was.

Bob S.

The elevation gain on the treadmills is fake but it is still significantly harder. So if you are going to use a treadmill you might as well do it on an incline.

The stair steppers are decent. It is the machine I prefer if I'm stuck in a hotel somewhere without an erg. However, watch your technique. Don't hold on to the machine (which sometimes means not using the heart rate feature), and make sure your getting a normal rotation of the upper body and pelvis.

My right knee has problems so I can't run anymore. However I do often put weight in a pack and hike steep hills. It can be a hard aerobic workout or a real leg strength workout depending on the weight. I am fortunate enough to live with good steep trails. Besides my dogs prefer it when I walk slowly. It gives them time to explore and chase things rather then just having to keep up with me.

[michaelb]

Would it be fair/accurate to state that my weakness would be longer "endurance" rows...considering I can do a 500m sprint between 1:29 and 1:30 yet my 6k best is a tad under 1:55 avg? 2k best being a 1:43ish avg.

To me this would seem to be a weakness, or my strength is just short pieces lol.

Having now read the relevant parts of this interesting thread, that I had previously overlooked, I wanted to go back to your initial point and say that I think you are exactly right: your 6k is really weak compared to your 2k. I would think your 6k would be closer to a 1:50 split. What happened with that 6k anyway? You mention a mental block, which we all may have, but your mental block may be even stronger at these hard middle distances.

How to get better at the middle distances? I agree with Jamie (and by proxy Xeno) that rowing long can help build endurance. But I see little discussion and little focus on the training value of rowing the middle distances at medium hard to PB paces. So for you, mixing in with slower longer work, working down to 8ks and 10ks in the 1:55 range and 6ks and 5ks in the 1:50-1:55 range. Those might seem really fast for you now, since they are faster than your current 6k PB, but I am not convinced yet that is really your limit. If it is really your limit, then bump those up by +5 or more, and start working them down by a sec every week or two (so starting with 10ks at 2:00, and 6ks at 1:58) and do one or two hard middle distances a week, progressively faster each week or two.

In addition to whatever training benefit flows from working on the middle distances, I think it can really help mentally. If you can hold 1:48 for a 5k, you will have a lot more confidence holding a 1:42 split in the 2k; which at that point will now seem like a sprint.

I should also say though that I don't really follow a training plan myself (but my vague memory of the wolverine plan and even Xeno's plan from years ago, was that they included some regular middle distance rows at medium to high intensity).

[ccwenk]

I think that is a great point. When I was rowing competitively in college, the workout that really helped me push (and learn) my 6k pace was 2x 4k. I would try doing this workout at your current 6k pace, then work it down week by week from there. For a 6k test, I would treat this workout similarly to how Mike Caviston treats 8x500 and 4x1k.

[Jamie Pfeffer]

I think that is a great point. When I was rowing competitively in college, the workout that really helped me push (and learn) my 6k pace was 2x 4k. I would try doing this workout at your current 6k pace, then work it down week by week from there. For a 6k test, I would treat this workout similarly to how Mike Caviston treats 8x500 and 4x1k.

Agreed. Xeno's plan always includes at least once a week a 3x19-minute pyramid. On Monday of this week, he had us do 6x15 minutes within a 90-minute row. I modified it slightly and did 5x15 minutes at as close to AT as I could stand. I think my averages were around 1:51, 1:50, 1:49.5; 1:49; 1:55 (the last one was done at 200 df; the others were at 128 df). I believe each piece was right around 4K.