Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[Joe L]

Tonight hard distance:

10K 35:57.7 1:47.9 23 spm

Last hard distance:

10K 36:16.9 1:48.8 23 spm

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

@ Lindsay, Piers, John, Joe - some great hard distances there - and a nice mix with a 5k, 6k, 30' and 10k

@ Glenn - that is great to get all 7 of the intervals under 1:45 - good stuff. From the spreadhseet looks like a sensible improvement from last cycle too.

PP 2.2.1 - Sprint Pyramid - 1:44.4 average

My speed pyramid today was 0.5 average quicker than cycle 1 - both cycles' averages dragged down by the second 500 and 250 - but I was quite happy with the time for the 750s and 1k - which were the sort of improvement to last time I was aiming for. Intra-interval pacing not as even as the 500s last week - but still vet pleased overall.

[hjs]

OK -this one felt a little rough. Easily could have bailed. Happy not. Henry, if you see this slap me around if this rate thing is getting out of control on the high side. Today I didn't have much in the legs, so it was out of desperation mainly, although I was checking out 35-36 to see how it felt. and it felt OK really. Breathing was pretty synchronized. True recovery tomorrow.

It won't let me upload my sheet. I guess we have overloaded the system! Here it is manually:
250 - 1:43.2 r37
500 - 1:44.2 r36
750 - 1:44.7 r36
1000 - 1:44.6 r36
750 - 1:44.8 r38
500 - 1:44.1 r38
250 - 1:42.8 r40

average: 144.4 r37

Don,t see the problem, if you can keep this up its good. Should be close to sub 7,

Pacingwise I don,t like your last 2 reps, certainly that last 250 should be a lot faster. But maybe you held back? Rating fir that 250 is also low , really no joke. Only a slight extra.
Keep the long work lower rate though.

[Pie Man]

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. The 6k was a proper stationary start I was referring to the last 2k of the 6k which was faster at 7:41.3 than my current soft 2k pb don't worry I am not counting that 2k as a new pb I mentioned it more as a comment on how weak my pb 2k is or that I need a very long warm up

[bisqeet]

Another vote for rest from me Tim. You could go for a walk just to keep ticking over. Fitness crept up on me doing the BPP you won't hit every target but as you put the meters in as you are you will get better.

I find heat a real killer Gordon, I went very steady in my SS yesterday as the erg was in full sun.

Nice 30' John especially after a trip to the dentist.

So that is what you can do with tired legs Glenn! How much below your target were you?

Tonight was my hard distance of 6k. Best time previously was 2 months ago @ 24:11.5 done as part of the BPP.
2K warm up with 10 hard pulls every 500m.

6k 23:26.5 @1:57.2 (same pace as my current 5k pb)
Splits were

3:58.9
3:57.8
3:55.2
3:53.3
3:53.4
3:47.9
As often happens with me the first 2k was turgid. Once I got to half way I started to get it and my last 2000m all beit with a rolling start was a couple of seconds faster than my 2k pb. It may be best for me to enter two consecutive races at the BIRC so the first one can warm me up properly

Just saw "rolling start", guys a 6k or 5k or any PB distance is rowed as a straight piece not with 0 rest,
if this is the case, on a HM OR FM i could understand but not a 5k or 6k.

And yes it does make a difference as its not giving you the ave fot the whole 6k but per 1k in this case,
easy of the last 1k with 0 rest but not at the end of 5k straight before it.

Ah well if im wrong it was not put up as a straight 6k forgive me but no PB counts from 500m-1k-2k-5k-6k-10k-60 min
with 0 rests period. HM and above whatever as its very long.

A true PB is done straight

negative vibes...
maybe my english isn't as good as it should be, I don't get much chance to use it at home, but...
i see nowhere in his post that he was claiming to have done a pb with a rolling start... a comparison true, but thats as far as it goes.

no one claims to have done or registers pb's on a rolling start - never entered a competition where this was allowed (well not true, i did a 12km OTW quad race in July that was with a "rolling start", but as our quad was the "youngest" with a mere 260 years aboard - who cares...)

as for rolling starts, as far as training goes - its up to the individual. Moving a stationary flywheel is a lot harder than starting a single from start - it takes about 3 time the power to start it moving - thats a lot of stress on the knees/back (more back if your technique isn't 100%), just for training. I just had the carlidge removed from my right knee in Feb (left knee was done the year before - old war wounds, sort of). The temptation is there, and i feel the need i would do rolling starts simply to reduce any further wear and tear...

[Pie Man]

True but it was in the 6k not at the start of the 6k.

Was my end screen

BTW pleased that I actually pulled the last stoke rather than costing over the line.

[lindsayh]

So it it was 6 x 1k 0 rest
I am not having a pop you are were i was years ago but put up 5k or 6k
and row it straight

Hey Paul - I think you have been a little confused by Piers comment - he did a 6km single piece no "0" rests and simply made the comment that the last 2 km was fast for him even though he was rolling through it - he wasn't claiming a PB or anything just observing the times.

[JohnAd]

@Glenn, great work on the pyramid I'm slightly dreading this, the rail must have been glowing at those rates.

@piers I'm with Sanz, can't wait for BIRC to see you blowing your PB away, I think I know exactly what you mean about the first 2k, turgid described it exactly, on my 30 I just stretched out my hamstrings and shoulders a bit and started, after 6 mins at less than my target pace I was thinking how on earth am I going to sustain this. So for real tests finding a warm up that gets me going without tiring me out will be critical.

@joe, taking that sort of time off at that pace is fantastic, looks like you've got pleanty of headroom to go even faster.

@lindsay, very nice first hard distance, you're clearly in much better shape than you think you are but best to come at it that way round. Was that tank empty at the end or were you holding back?

[lindsayh]

lindsay, very nice first hard distance, you're clearly in much better shape than you think you are but best to come at it that way round. Was that tank empty at the end or were you holding back?

Thanks John - I actually think I am in pretty good shape as all three sessions this week have been fast enough and satisfying without being "death defying". I don't have the sharpening of being race ready so just trying to avoid peaking too early and trying to take the long view. I was definitely holding back a little today to make sure I got it right knowing that I will have a number of chances to get it faster and maybe even sub 1:50. Part of the PP game I reckon is improving each cycle so I'm leaving a bit of room at the top as well as learning what are achievable paces for slightly unfamiliar sessions. Week 1 has been good and sharing it with others has been really helpful for me. (I do have erg buddies to do the live sessions at the gym as well)

[bisqeet]

No neg vibes, rolling start in an interval session fine but not in a 6k

Sigh... Even I read that it was the last 2k split of a 6k, hence he was 'rolling'..
Just seems that every post is a dig at someone. Constructive criticism is welcome. Putting someone down who is doing thete best and in my eyes is improving greatly just seems counteractive...

[JohnAd]

I actually think I am in pretty good shape as all three sessions this week have been fast enough and satisfying without being "death defying". I don't have the sharpening of being race ready so just trying to avoid peaking too early and trying to take the long view. I was definitely holding back a little today to make sure I got it right knowing that I will have a number of chances to get it faster and maybe even sub 1:50. Part of the PP game I reckon is improving each cycle so I'm leaving a bit of room at the top as well as learning what are achievable paces for slightly unfamiliar sessions.

Wise words, it's great having your experience in the group and it's very interesting how people are approaching the sessions in terms of targets. I'm probably in a bit of a rush sometimes. Also it's hard for to me to shift from the no pain no gain mentality but I do need to avoid burning out or getting ill.

[G-dub]

- Rohan, nice speed pyramid. You are in a good groove.
- Pie, we know what you are saying. And again, solid 6K and many who are struggling with mid distance pieces can learn from that negative split approach.
- Dean, nice defense of the realm.
- Lindsay, very professional. I am going to plant "blue sky" in my dome.

- Jack, please come back.

[bisqeet]

Every post is a dig at someone i have given some very sound advice to some
and they have improved

i have read some of your advice.
-some i would agree with, other points i would not.
some for personal reasons, others for things taught or learned from other sources. A lot of the stuff i learned is probably outdated, I havent done any coaching or teaching for over 20 years, where courses were compulsory for holding your coaches licence.
I try to keep a neutral view on different training aspects, unless i have tried them myself.

Pete Marston does a HM once a year, so any chance of you doing a hard 5k,6k or 30',
the plan is not HM training

I take it this is a reference to my training?
1) I am not Pete Marston; I neither have his experience, skillset or his competition level.
- rowing, either OTW or ergo is for me primarily fitness, followed by fun. I have prioritised a good aerobic base as my target and try to achiece this using a polarised training method. As of 01.05 (season start) I have done about 1,5MM (both OTW and erg) - of which approx 90% has been R20-R18 stuff, usually well in UT2 area (<130 pulse, or somewhere between 2:00 and 2:15) - I normally only do HIIT OTW. Its true, I like the HM distance - its a nice distance for UT2 and I have done 48 since 01.05 - all under 1:30 (at UT2) and the odd 1 or two fast at 1:20.x pace.
I havent done a 6k this year, its true - its sort of a distance that is a bit weird for me.
5k and 30 minutes I have ranked (although I think the 30minute was restricted at R24 for the CTC) at 18:06 and 8031m respectively. I haven't done a 2k - these distances are nothing more than a way of testing myself against last years results.
my training log is in my signature below - I have nothing to hide...I'm sure last years nonathlon results are still available for the 6k if that bothers you - you might even find a 2k there -as i havent done one of those this year either...

And you did make a comment somewhere that "if i want to go up and down like a bunny rabbit"
i take that me doing the HIIT sprints, 43-46spm for 1:24/5 pace takes some grunt i can
tell you and my PB for 7 x 25/95 is 1:29.2 ave at 41spm far from a bunny rabbit
for my age and not being very strong.

possibly, I beleive it was "wapid wabbits". for me to achieve 46 spm i would have to use half or even quarter slide. At 196 (6'5") its more effective to use a longer slide, probably an OTW thing. short slides is usefull for starts to get the boat moving other than that its not efficient -> makes big guys look like wappid wabbits..
I suppose a lot would depend on your power - a lot of lightweights find it easier to rateup. Personally I think it is because their power (relatively speaking) is lower than HW.
to put that it relation or provide an example 1:30 @ 46spm is about 10W / SPI which I guess is a little less than my HM at UT2. Which means your drive is the exactly the same as mine - just my recovery is longer, oh and I guess I do it for 90 minutes and lets not forget I haven't even started breathing hard
horses for courses. not my target.

Try it sometime, i PB'd my 1k with ease after doing then at 31spm
The idea is after 43/46spm 32spm feels light and so does 1:44/5 pace a cruise.

I meant no harm

i wish i could whip up a bob.s reply here - but unfortunately i'm not that cool.
if you wish to comment further, open up a new thread (or pm), seems a shame to clutter this one with OTT stuff, as most are doing great here and are enjoying the friendly motivation given by the rest of the team. No doubt we can banter away to our hearts content and let the others view from the popcorn stalls....

[bisqeet]

lindsay, very nice first hard distance, you're clearly in much better shape than you think you are but best to come at it that way round. Was that tank empty at the end or were you holding back?

Thanks John - I actually think I am in pretty good shape as all three sessions this week have been fast enough and satisfying without being "death defying". I don't have the sharpening of being race ready so just trying to avoid peaking too early and trying to take the long view. I was definitely holding back a little today to make sure I got it right knowing that I will have a number of chances to get it faster and maybe even sub 1:50. Part of the PP game I reckon is improving each cycle so I'm leaving a bit of room at the top as well as learning what are achievable paces for slightly unfamiliar sessions. Week 1 has been good and sharing it with others has been really helpful for me. (I do have erg buddies to do the live sessions at the gym as well)

I've never known you out of shape, Lindsay. Did you race with Anthony Ajg this month ? spoke highly of you.

[mdpfirrman]

The thread has taken a bit of a negative tone. Please refrain. All Dean was saying was please keep all criticism constructive (whether you're participating or not) and I agree with that.

@ Paul - perhaps you might want to participate in the next round? Seems you like this thread and have offered some useful advice. Why not join in? With Dean being as tall as he is, some of the rates suggested would be impossible.

@ Jack - Where are you? Hope you're OK. Always like your input.

@ Glenn - Nice pyramid Glenn. I've found it useful to soften my stroke finish to rate up too. I think I've gotten a lot more efficient and countered the tendency that I have to pull too hard at the end and hold at the top.

@ Lindsay - Very smart first week. Like your approach to training. I do think the only "risk" in peaking too soon is that would be an indication someone needs to back off and take it easier a week or two (perhaps pushing it too hard). I personally think the plan is as much about retaining speed as it is peaking. You obviously have the speed already so for you it's just sharpening the pencil a bit.

@ Joe / Piers - really nice timed row. Both of you are crushing it. I know exactly what you meant Piers! You'll crush your 2K this year.

I'm sure I forgot someone - miss a day you miss a lot.

Please keep all comments constructive not critical. Thanks all!