Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[G-dub]

I bet you could do 5x5 one day a week (2-3 exercises each week on one day) and still get stronger. Look at this:

http://danjohn.net/2012/11/easy-strength/

[mudgeg]

Pete Plan Beginners, Week 3 Day 3

6000 row. Target pace same as equivalent distance a few days ago (2:13.7). Actual 2:12.8 SPM 26

So a reasonable improvement from week one where I did 5000m at 2:16.6

Just spent two days in meetings eating awful food, drinking bad coffee and having to be polite to boring people so needed a good workout to detox. For some odd reason, I found this distance difficult on Monday (after two rest days). Much more comfortable today and I paced it much better at a couple of seconds off target and then squeezed the accelerator in the last thousand.

[G-dub]

Putting the meters in the bank Gordon. Nice job.

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

Rohan, thanks for the podcast tips, I'll give them a go. As will be obvious if you're reading the steady state thread I'm not really getting the SS stuff but I think if I could see something like HR drift changing perhaps I'd find it easier to justify it to myself. Better HR tracking is probably the way forward for me on this. Is that what you're up to with all the data collection?

John I'd say my data collection is for a mix of reasons.

The first is just general data wonkiness. I'll be honest, I love a stat, I love a chart, and I spend far more time messing around in spreadsheets than I probably should, so the tracking of HR (and now stroke by stroke pace and spm since I upgraded the firmware on the ergs I normally use and so can hook up ergdata) just makes the whole thing that bit more interesting - I really look forward to updating my SS HR chart and seeing how the new series I added compares to the historic ones purely from a data perspective!

But I do also have a fair degree of trying to use this data to answer the question - is this SS? I defo have been following that thread you refer to - even chucked in a question of my own about the WP L4 which I've been scratching my head over for a while. The reddit link Remi kicked off the thread with was very interesting, and it's been great to see the contributions by people like Henry and Greg - but there's obviously no single, universally accepted answer, or there wouldn't be that thread in the first place! I don't know the optimal time, intensity, pacing, average or max HR for my SS rows, but at least by tracking it I've got some data to compare them on over time, and a 'non-controllable' (as opposed to pace and spm) signal just to check I'm in the general vicinity and nothing is going haywire.

[JohnAd]

Yep I'm confused by the L4 too, a lot of the justification seems to be that it helps with OTW skills and mental discipline but these seem less important for pure ergers.

[mdpfirrman]

Yep I'm confused by the L4 too, a lot of the justification seems to be that it helps with OTW skills and mental discipline but these seem less important for pure ergers.

Wolverine (and L4 work) are simply a linear / progressive plan. PP is a cyclical, continuous plan. Wolverine is meant to "build" up from very early Spring until the Fall during the peak of race season. L4 work starts out (at very low SPM) as SS work, but during the training season gradually builds to hard UT1 work if not AT work. The problem most have with Wolverine (and L4) is they jump in way too far along on the pacing without doing the hundreds of hours of SS work building up to it. Once you reach 22 / 24 SPM, you are certainly not in UT2 any longer. All SS should be low to mid UT2 (75% of max HR or less -- probably down to 65% / 70% to be effective).

I used PP as a basis (borrowing a lot off of what I learned from Greg) for my base building phase early in the year. I rowed 6 days a week and did intervals two days a week, but I only did 2 or 3 speed intervals and 1 or 2 intermediate intervals - thus, hopefully not losing the speed I had acquired while doing most of my work at UT2 (ideally 80% of it or more). When I did the intervals, though, I also did faster than the prescribed paces of PP to further "polarize" the training - fast or slow. I prescribe by a lot of the running principals of Matt Fitzgerald's 80/20 Running. This idea is no matter how much you train, 80% should be in UT2 and 20% really fast. Where periodization (as opposed to polarization) comes in is closer to racing season. That's where the true PP has it's place. You should gradually shift to more intense work as you close in on racing season (more like 60/40). This is more like PP. Essentially, Wolverine accomplishes the same thing, except they do it by simply increasing the SPM on the L4. The closer to season, the more rows are 22/24 SPM and very hard. This is why PP has the 3rd hard workout (not necessary in my opinion during the base building phase). I think that Pete wanted to reflect the harder sessions of the L4 without getting obsessed with stroke rate.

You can essentially still borrow principals from both plans during different parts of the year in my opinion.

[Joe L]

PP 2.1.3 5x1500m 5'
Last 1:53.9 r24
Target <1:53.0 r26
01:52.9 r26
01:52.7 r25
01:52.4 r26
01:52.0 r26
01:49.5 r27
Avg 1:51.9 r26

With the efforts put in by everyone on this session before the stakes were high, it's very humid in London at the moment but the first 2 felt OK so pushed a little more with each one. Felt like I had a bit less in the tank at the end so probably one more round of fair sized improvements before I settle down but very happy taking 2 seconds off. I think my pacing is getting better but it takes me a while to settle into my target pace for the first 500, I'm tending to go off a bit fast.

Nice time drop, John. Your rates are very similar to mine. Do you think you can get it cranked up to r28 with another 2 second drop next cycle? It seems like I'm closer to .5 sec per extra spm rather than a full second. Great job!

[Joe L]

I took my rest day yesterday because work/life got in the way. I may continue to use a weekday rather than Saturday as my off day. It just seems like something always comes up during the week and I typically have way more time on weekends.

Tonight was an SS session - 60 minutes at 1:59.6 r18

[Goldenbarry]

PPB week 3 session 1. 6k 2:14.1 at r19 strapless. Taking tomorrow off to refresh but I'm sure I'll be checking in to see how all of you are getting along.
Barry

[hjs]

Yep I'm confused by the L4 too, a lot of the justification seems to be that it helps with OTW skills and mental discipline but these seem less important for pure ergers.

Wolverine (and L4 work) are simply a linear / progressive plan. PP is a cyclical, continuous plan. Wolverine is meant to "build" up from very early Spring until the Fall during the peak of race season. L4 work starts out (at very low SPM) as SS work, but during the training season gradually builds to hard UT1 work if not AT work. The problem most have with Wolverine (and L4) is they jump in way too far along on the pacing without doing the hundreds of hours of SS work building up to it. Once you reach 22 / 24 SPM, you are certainly not in UT2 any longer. All SS should be low to mid UT2 (75% of max HR or less -- probably down to 65% / 70% to be effective).

I used PP as a basis (borrowing a lot off of what I learned from Greg) for my base building phase early in the year. I rowed 6 days a week and did intervals two days a week, but I only did 2 or 3 speed intervals and 1 or 2 intermediate intervals - thus, hopefully not losing the speed I had acquired while doing most of my work at UT2 (ideally 80% of it or more). When I did the intervals, though, I also did faster than the prescribed paces of PP to further "polarize" the training - fast or slow. I prescribe by a lot of the running principals of Matt Fitzgerald's 80/20 Running. This idea is no matter how much you train, 80% should be in UT2 and 20% really fast. Where periodization (as opposed to polarization) comes in is closer to racing season. That's where the true PP has it's place. You should gradually shift to more intense work as you close in on racing season (more like 60/40). This is more like PP. Essentially, Wolverine accomplishes the same thing, except they do it by simply increasing the SPM on the L4. The closer to season, the more rows are 22/24 SPM and very hard. This is why PP has the 3rd hard workout (not necessary in my opinion during the base building phase). I think that Pete wanted to reflect the harder sessions of the L4 without getting obsessed with stroke rate.

You can essentially still borrow principals from both plans during different parts of the year in my opinion.

Mike l4 starts around av 18 in the beginning of the and at best goes av 20. It should never come to 22/24 av. Intensity should roughly stay the same, increeses fitness gives you extra speed.

The term Ss does not do justice. Both the wolverine and Pete plan, they way are written do not use SS paces. ofcourse it can be used, but its a deviation.

L1 is speedwork short PP
L2 is speedwork long PP
L3 is roughly endurance work PP, although l3 is a bit longer.
L4 is completely cut out in PP.

In the wolverine plan, l4 is roughly 60% of the meters rows. Those are really gone. It is possible to do the Wol plan on lower volume, but that would alter it a lot. Its more ment for high volume.
PP is much more a sharpening plan, without building the big base. building to a raceseason 2k.

[JohnAd]

Mike/Henry thanks for clarifying. I think I get as much as I'm going to get on the various competing training theories, they can't all be right so you kind of have to back the one you trust the most, for now PP seems right for me although I'm already breaking the lower rate bounds on SS days as I think I to need to practice stronger strokes.

Nice time drop, John. Your rates are very similar to mine. Do you think you can get it cranked up to r28 with another 2 second drop next cycle? It seems like I'm closer to .5 sec per extra spm rather than a full second. Great job!

I'm still trying to find my optimal stroke/rate combinations, I think I've got a bit of room to make the strokes stronger at what for me is a higher and not yet natural rating so I was planning to use this and probably the next cycle to get used to doing the endurance intervals at around 26 and the sprints at around 30. When I start to flag on the endurance pieces I tend to feel pulled back into a long, hands bang chest, jerky 24 and a similar thing on the sprints at around 28. So focus for me at the moment is probably technique and getting used to the breathing patterns at different rates as I think that's what pulling me back into the bad habits. For my SS I've been allowing the rate to go down so yesterday's was at 20 and that was fine, I think strapless is helping with hands bang chest thing and a lower drag for SS is forcing me to catch properly to get the pace but it all goes to pot when the pressure is on.

[hjs]

John, its not about right or wrong. Its how much you like it. Most people do best working in a group, thats why this thread works. But this thread will die out after 2/3 rounds, thats also the nature of the game. Look how rapidly most of you guys improve, extrapolate that to a year and you know that will never happen.
2/3 rounds, bit depending on the fitnessbase is the max for this.

[bisqeet]

PP 1.6 SS
As a compromise (racing tomorrow) I did this at R20 instead of R18
works out at 9W/SPI instead of 10.
strapless, DF 140
still very low UT2 area - in fact at one point i took a sip and my HR dropped below 130!
not much lactate build up if any at that rate.
I guess the mass of volume at UT2 i've already done this year (1,5M) has improved my aerobic base a bit...

[bisqeet]

John, its not about right or wrong. Its how much you like it. Most people do best working in a group, thats why this thread works. But this thread will die out after 2/3 rounds, thats also the nature of the game. Look how rapidly most of you guys improve, extrapolate that to a year and you know that will never happen.
2/3 rounds, bit depending on the fitnessbase is the max for this.

the PP was only meant to run 2-3 rotations. I personally, dont think its a long term plan. Its fun to do, as long as it doesnt impede with any real stuff, but as a long term training scheme - not for me. I tried it last year and made 4 rotations - the 4th showing little or no improvement.

[hjs]

John, its not about right or wrong. Its how much you like it. Most people do best working in a group, thats why this thread works. But this thread will die out after 2/3 rounds, thats also the nature of the game. Look how rapidly most of you guys improve, extrapolate that to a year and you know that will never happen.
2/3 rounds, bit depending on the fitnessbase is the max for this.

the PP was only meant to run 2-3 rotations. I personally, dont think its a long term plan. Its fun to do, as long as it doesnt impede with any real stuff, but as a long term training scheme - not for me. I tried it last year and made 4 rotations - the 4th showing little or no improvement.

And thats the big disadvantage. In the longer run, its about finding a way to stay motivated to work out. Most guys here on the plan (guys only ??? , also strange) on this forum woman are rare) are relative newbies, most will drop off.