Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[mdpfirrman]

Unreal how much you miss in 12 hours on this thread!

Glenn - Amazing time for being tired! Congrats on the PB!

Sanz - way to tough out the heat on the 1500s!

Ben - Very nice pace for a 6K.

Barry - Glad you're feeling better / nice work on the 3 X 8'. Solid row!

Adam - You just completely crushed your goal! Way faster than target!

Lindsay - Quietly setting an example on the SS work. If you watch Lindsay's times / paces, he's very smart about recovery. Though 2:04 / 45' would seem like a very hard row to most of us, for Lindsay, that's properly "easy". We would all be wise to follow his examples.

Dean - Wow! A half! I hope you don't pay the price later for the FTC work.

Piers - Really nice 1500 X 5! It's a pleasure to have someone that is similar in pace to me this year. Last year, I didn't have that. As a newer rower, then I was kind of all in a class by myself. Great fun cheering / comparing to someone that can relate to the same struggles I am.

Did my SS work very slow yesterday -- 2:20 or so (around 9 or 10 seconds slower than normal though part of that was I stopped for a second to talk to someone at the gym during the row). I was not feeling it. Perhaps I wasn't smart about going so hard on that last rep the other day. I felt a bit rough yesterday and today. I think my body's fighting off something. I might replace the 5K timed today with a L4 type of hard row instead. Certainly don't feel up to pushing it right now but we'll see how I feel later in the day.

[G-dub]

Listen to it Mike. I think if the SS was a struggle and not enjoyable and if you are not excited today its a sign worth listening to. Just get er done as a high UT1 type of row. No need for anything else and we have a tough stretch ahead of us.

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

Mike I agree with Glenn here - plenty more weeks for a real hard 5k if you're not feeling up to it today.

PP 2.1.6 - SS 10k, 43:57.8 (2:11.8 pace).

HR stayed pretty low on this one, average of 136 and max of 148 - the dip at about the halfway mark was a laughter induced very short HD - the podcast I was listening to got the better of me! So low HR and low PE, but but legs and back did feel a bit weary walking around and stretching afterwards - which I take just as the end of a solid week - looking forward to a day off tomorrow!

I'm travelling this weekend and then again the week after next - not sure if I'll have access to an erg on Sat and Sun which would be my pyramid and than an SS, but if not I could erg on Mon-Sat next week before travelling again - so either way should still be able to get a full Cycle 2 Week 2 in even if there's a couple extra days break now.

[jackarabit]

Pete 2.1.5
hard distance
30'
Cold start
1500m CD
Df115

[jackarabit]

Pete 2.1.6
8k SS
Df 115
750m CD

[JohnAd]

Pete 2.1.5
hard distance
30'

In this case the picture does not tell a 1000 words, So was that a deliberate 24' or an HD, looks like your were on for a 30' PB and ticking over nicely.

[JohnAd]

the podcast I was listening to got the better of me!

Nice looking SS, is the pacing constant or do you drop off the pace as the HR goes up, if these are all constant pace it looks like you're getting fitter as the lines seem to be getting flatter. What podcast got you in fits? I also like a bit of comedy to cheer my up especially on the long rows but the ones I listen to rarely get more than a mid pant smile.

[mdpfirrman]

Looks like Jack had the same idea I did. I did a fairly heavy lift before my row today (ill advised), didn't eat (really dumb) and then set up the erg for a 30' row, thinking I'd just do a hardish 30' instead of the 5K. I stopped at 5K. Barely under 20 minutes (something like 19:55.7 or so). Way off last week and the 1500 X 5 pace but understandable immediately after a harder lift. I feel OK right now. Will take the SS easy tomorrow and looking forward to a rest day Saturday (my off day).

I still struggle with fitting in the lifting part. I lift Sunday before the fast intervals (but I take an hour off between) and then lift / row in immediate succession on the timed days. I guess it's not wise but I've already cut down lifting from 3 days (I haven't lifted on Tuesdays since starting the PP) to 2 and I guess I'm not willing to sacrifice any more lifting time. What I think I'll do closer to race time is to not lift except after my rows (if at all for a few weeks - perhaps one rotation where I don't sacrifice the rowing performance from the lift). I know my HR is elevated significantly (even with five minutes off) after a heavy lift. Not a good true reading of performance on the 5K but I'm hoping it will help longer term to be able to perform better while tired.

[G-dub]

Mike, would you be open to describing the kind of lifting you are doing?

[mdpfirrman]

Mike, would you be open to describing the kind of lifting you are doing?

I don't mind telling. It's a very short but intense session for me. I also do a full body workout instead of isolation since I only lift twice a week. I'm limited in how much I can do on compound moves (like dead lifts and cleans) because I have a fairly unstable right knee structurally. Today was a normal-ish lift for me.

30 pushups to warmup
shoulder rotations w/ 10 lb dumbells
50 lb one arm kettlebell swings (10 each side)
Use same 50 lb kettlebell - one arm rows
Shoulder presses (machines that load Olympic plates) - 180 lb overheads - 7 reps
20 sit ups (on incline bench fully inclined)
Incline (that's all I ever do is incline) Bench Press - 15 reps of 135 lbs
Arnold Presses - 45 lb dumbbells - 8 reps
Walking Lunges w/ 50 lb bar
One Arm KB Swings again - 35 lb this time - 15 each side
20 Sit-ups
Overhead Press again - 180 lbs (5 reps)
Incline Bench Press - 165 lbs - set of 10
Squats w/ 45 lb set of dumbbells - set of 15
Dips till fatigue (unassisted - around 15)

Something like that in 25 minutes - I superset very quickly because I'm limited on how much I can lift on compound moves that are most effective (like deadlifts). There are times I might replace some of the leg work with leg press (around 300# or so) but this is a good overall routine similar to what I normally do. A 5X5 type workout would probably be less taxing (with more recovery) but I do all my workouts within an hour at lunch, so unless I split the lifting and do it at night (if I do this I usually blow it off), it's tough to fit it all in. When I used to wear a HRM, it's not uncommon for me to have a sustained 140 or so HR during this session because the superset nature of the workout (as opposed to isolation of legs only or back / shoulders for instance).

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

the podcast I was listening to got the better of me!

Nice looking SS, is the pacing constant or do you drop off the pace as the HR goes up, if these are all constant pace it looks like you're getting fitter as the lines seem to be getting flatter. What podcast got you in fits? I also like a bit of comedy to cheer my up especially on the long rows but the ones I listen to rarely get more than a mid pant smile.

John I am trying to do these at as even a pace as possible. Combination of the podcast and lower attention because end of week meant there was a very slight positive split today - first 2 500m splits were at 2:10.x, 8 of the next 9 at 2:11.x (and 7 of those 9 at 2:11.7, 2:11.8 or 2:11.9) and the final 9 were all at 2:12.x (with 7 of those at 2:12.1 or 2:12.3) - so not a serious drift!

The podcast I was listening today was one by an Australian comedian (I'm an Aussie living in London) named Wil Anderson. Possibly somewhat Aussie specific - and some of the humour is pretty crass so not one I'd necessarily recommend to people before I had a feeling of their sense of humour, but he does also have a great serious podcast called 'Wilospohy' - most of the episodes of that I've listened to of that one are him talking to other Aussies, but there are some international guests on that too.

An awesome (but dead serious) podcast I've just got into is Revisionist History by Malcolm Gladwell - the first episode of which coincidentally does include a decent chunk of Aussie politics - but all the episodes I've listened to of that have been great - including one about why Wilt Chamberlain didn't take his free throws underarm - even though he'd have scored many more points if he had!

[G-dub]

Good lord, no wonder you are tired! How many days do you row? 5-6? What if you broke this up and did an exercise or two before and or after your rows on three of those days - maybe lower body before and upper after? I am just a guy like you, so I don't know what I'm talking about, but one way to think about it is to do, say, bell swings before and bench after. Then another day your kbell squats before then shoulder presses after. Then another your lunges and your rows. Maybe slim down the number of exercises so there is a squat, a hinge, a press and an ab but only one of each instead of several of each like you have it! I bet you would still maintain or even add to your strength. And, as you know, if you are wanting to get stronger it would seem like doing the big nasty dead lifts, leg presses or heavier squats is part of it, but I think I can do those once every 8-10 days and still add plates on. Probably even two weeks. During the Pete I would think about a less is more approach and save the longer routine for another season. But you knew I was going to say that!

Edit: reason I have leg exercises before is that it doesn't look like you are heavy with those and they can warm you up nice. But someone else may say to do them after. It works both ways for me pretty much because I'm not doing big reps and sets and am definitely well below max.

[JohnAd]

Rohan, thanks for the podcast tips, I'll give them a go. As will be obvious if you're reading the steady state thread I'm not really getting the SS stuff but I think if I could see something like HR drift changing perhaps I'd find it easier to justify it to myself. Better HR tracking is probably the way forward for me on this. Is that what you're up to with all the data collection?

[G-dub]

John, one way to think about it is that you want to see improvement, right? One thing I am trying is to throw the strap on once a week or two on a row of same distance or time and at same pace and rate to see what happens to the heart rate. If it's done on the same day of the week at the same time etc etc etc it gives a picture of whether you are improving or not. To me a 30' row works because drift doesn't hurt it too bad.

[mdpfirrman]

Good lord, no wonder you are tired! How many days do you row? 5-6? What if you broke this up and did an exercise or two before and or after your rows on three of those days - maybe lower body before and upper after? I am just a guy like you, so I don't know what I'm talking about, but one way to think about it is to do, say, bell swings before and bench after. Then another day your kbell squats before then shoulder presses after. Then another your lunges and your rows. Maybe slim down the number of exercises so there is a squat, a hinge, a press and an ab but only one of each instead of several of each like you have it! I bet you would still maintain or even add to your strength. And, as you know, if you are wanting to get stronger it would seem like doing the big nasty dead lifts, leg presses or heavier squats is part of it, but I think I can do those once every 8-10 days and still add plates on. Probably even two weeks. During the Pete I would think about a less is more approach and save the longer routine for another season. But you knew I was going to say that!

Edit: reason I have leg exercises before is that it doesn't look like you are heavy with those and they can warm you up nice. But someone else may say to do them after. It works both ways for me pretty much because I'm not doing big reps and sets and am definitely well below max.

Your probably right Glenn. Old habits die hard. My son (who does more of a 5 X 5 routine) says "you're insane!" to me all the time. Actually, on Sunday when I have an hour or so break, I'm fine. It's just when the row is immediately after this lift I struggle. I might look at just breaking the leg part up and doing that on Thursday nights instead. I honestly think it's probably the leg part that interferes with rowing most (along with back -- I only do one set of back usually to save my strength there for the row but I should probably move the back work to night too and experiment with that for a few weeks). I honestly don't feel all the chest / shoulder work interferes that much other than driving the HR up prior to the row (which is enough to interfere but my muscles don't feel drained from it).