Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[aegis]

Iain thanks a lot, let me see if I can pick up the pace just a little bit then.
"when we start out we don't know what we are capable of" is indeed what I'm facing now. Need to try.

The strategy for intervals will let you know what you are capable of and also to track your progress. Pete suggests that for the first (n-1) intervals do at a pace where you can manage to finish them then all out on the last, use the average as your target next time. The improvement might not be linear but generally you should see progress. Also, you may get instances when you blow up on the intervals from time to time.

Jul 2022
25:24.2 6,000m 2:07.0 171 887 24 137
6:23.3 1,500m 2:07.7 168 877 25 180
6:22.9 1,500m 2:07.6 168 879 24 185
6:22.4 1,500m 2:07.4 169 881 24 186
6:15.6 1,500m 2:05.2 178 913 25

Sep 2022
25:23.1 6,000m 2:06.9 171 889 26 191
6:20.8 1,500m 2:06.9 171 888 25 185
6:20.7 1,500m 2:06.9 171 889 28 190
6:21.5 1,500m 2:07.1 170 885 26 194
6:20.1 1,500m 2:06.7 172 892 26 198

Nov 2022
31:29.3 7,500m 2:05.9 175 902 28 186
6:20.0 1,500m 2:06.6 172 892 28 180
6:20.4 1,500m 2:06.8 172 890 28 184
6:19.8 1,500m 2:06.6 172 893 28 185
6:19.4 1,500m 2:06.4 173 895 28 188
6:09.8 1,500m 2:03.2 187 943 28 195

Feb 2023
31:23.1 7,500m 2:05.5 177 908 28 189
6:19.4 1,500m 2:06.4 173 895 28 181
6:19.1 1,500m 2:06.3 173 896 28 186
6:18.9 1,500m 2:06.3 174 897 29 188
6:18.8 1,500m 2:06.2 174 898 29 191
6:07.0 1,500m 2:02.3 191 957 29 199

Mar 2023
31:01.7 7,500m 2:04.1 183 930 30 181
6:16.1 1,500m 2:05.3 178 911 30 177
6:16.0 1,500m 2:05.3 178 911 30 177
6:15.7 1,500m 2:05.2 178 913 30 181
6:15.1 1,500m 2:05.0 179 916 30 184
5:58.8 1,500m 1:59.6 205 1004 31 190

Today I absolutely didn't want to do the 5*1500m but did it anyways with some DOMS in my hamstrings, started slightly slower and glad that I managed to neg split the intervals. The 1500m and 2000m are brutal, I don't like them but all the more reason to do them.

Jun 2023
30:56.3 7,500m 2:03.7 185 935 29 185
6:14.4 1,500m 2:04.8 180 919 28 177
6:13.2 1,500m 2:04.4 182 925 29 183
6:12.3 1,500m 2:04.1 183 930 29 186
6:11.6 1,500m 2:03.8 184 933 30 189
6:04.9 1,500m 2:01.6 194 969 31 190

[jrkob]

Guys thanks a lot.
@aegis thank you very much for the explanation and the data, I think this is exactly what I needed as it lets me see your paces over a long period of time, a year.
Judging by your HR (last column I suppose), you are doing these SS at significantly more effort than me !
The other take away for me looking at those data, is that I'm going to need to be very patient (which is fine). Can you share your age, weight and height ?
Again, thank you.

@iain you suggest to set some benchmarks and this sounds like a good idea. Let me see if I can do that on Friday (tomorrow is rest). I understand that it has to be an all out, but can you suggest a distance for that ? How about 5K ?

[dabatey]

Just out of interest for folks (and I know some will be fully aware of this).

Mike Caviston creator of the Wolverine Plan (Pete Plan is pretty much an 'abbreviated' version of the Wolverine Plan) suggests a quite different approach to interval pacing to that of Pete Marston.

Mike C says basically to negative split your intervals, ie getting slightly faster on each subsequent interval. (I found this approach worked for me as I always found the first interval really hard as almost still warming up.)

It's difficult to paraphrase Mike exactly, and Wolverine was not built for complete beginners, but the intention would be to start with intervals that are challenging but eminently achievable (whilst negative splitting them), then incrementally raise the pace each set of intervals (keeping negative splits). As the intervals get harder the negative split gets closer until almost even pacing for the intervals. This raising of the pace would be very gradual building over a 26 week period.

I just think I would have had plenty HD's following Pete's pacing advice. I think Pete maybe put forward this advice as easy to follow as opposed to Mike's approach (which means a bit more pre planning before a session). Each to their own of course.

[aegis]

Guys thanks a lot.
@aegis thank you very much for the explanation and the data, I think this is exactly what I needed as it lets me see your paces over a long period of time, a year.
Judging by your HR (last column I suppose), you are doing these SS at significantly more effort than me !
The other take away for me looking at those data, is that I'm going to need to be very patient (which is fine). Can you share your age, weight and height ?
Again, thank you.

@iain you suggest to set some benchmarks and this sounds like a good idea. Let me see if I can do that on Friday (tomorrow is rest). I understand that it has to be an all out, but can you suggest a distance for that ? How about 5K ?

My max observed HR was 201 last 6 months and 204 last one year. Interestingly I haven't hit 200 in a while and I can tell you I am putting in all out efforts on some of them. You can also observe that over time you can go faster or longer at lower heart rates. Another data point to consider is the distance for 1 hr SS work, I started at about 11km and can now do 13km in the same heart rate zones. Obviously plenty of folks here who are much faster but seeing progress and staying injury free keeps me going. I'm 44, 73kg and 178cm tall. Probably more strength training will help as I only do one or max two sessions of calisthenics or kettlebell work a week.

[fancyoats]

Jul 2022

Sep 2022

Nov 2022

Feb 2023

Mar 2023

Jun 2023

These are all intervals, with rest in between - not steady state, right?

[aegis]

Jul 2022

Sep 2022

Nov 2022

Feb 2023

Mar 2023

Jun 2023

These are all intervals, with rest in between - not steady state, right?

Yes 3min rest per the Pete Plan Beginner. I don't follow exactly the Pete Plan Beginner for steady state rows anymore, nowadays its anything from 45min to a HM but mostly 1hr during lunch time.

[iain]

Guys thanks a lot.
@aegis thank you very much for the explanation and the data, I think this is exactly what I needed as it lets me see your paces over a long period of time, a year.
Judging by your HR (last column I suppose), you are doing these SS at significantly more effort than me !
The other take away for me looking at those data, is that I'm going to need to be very patient (which is fine). Can you share your age, weight and height ?
Again, thank you.

@iain you suggest to set some benchmarks and this sounds like a good idea. Let me see if I can do that on Friday (tomorrow is rest). I understand that it has to be an all out, but can you suggest a distance for that ? How about 5K ?

No particular preference, we were discussing how long you can keep going at high HR. 5k is at threshold so pacing is crucial. I would suggest 10k as you will get pretty close to your best just below threshold. For me with similar HRmax and only slightly lower RHR I find 168-170 is sustainable for a long time. So for a first trial why don't you try holding a pace that you expect to get your Hr up to around that level and see what happens. If it continues up to mid 170's in the first 7k drop back a couple of seconds to allow it to recover and then accelerate by a second once HR drops into this zone. if it levels out below 167 then increase slightly a bit at a time until you are in this zone. Then if still in the zone for the last 2k, I would push a bit faster and again with 1k to go then really push the last 500 accelerating as you can. Try and maintain a strong stroke for the first 7k.

Hope it goes well.

Iain

[jrkob]

These are all intervals, with rest in between - not steady state, right?

Thanks for having raised this (this was important !).
How did you spot these were intervals, and not the 6km and 7.5km SS of the BPP ?

@iain ok thanks for the details of what I have to do. Let me try tomorrow and revert. In fact I think what you are describing is me fixing my HR at 168-170 and adjust my pace so as to stay in this zone. Pretty much I think.

[fancyoats]

These are all intervals, with rest in between - not steady state, right?

Thanks for having raised this.
How did you spot these were intervals, and not the 6km and 7.5km SS of the BPP ?

Not from the numbers themselves (although you did pick up on the high HR numbers compared to “usual” SS rows) but from the fact that he is talking about intervals showing one’s capabilities, as well as interval strategies, and then also how he didn’t want to do the 5*1500 intervals that day but did them anyway. Would make sense for him to be sharing interval numbers in that context.

[jrkob]

Got it, thank you !

[iain]

@iain ok thanks for the details of what I have to do. Let me try tomorrow and revert. In fact I think what you are describing is me fixing my HR at 168-170 and adjust my pace so as to stay in this zone. Pretty much I think.

Not exactly, HR takes time to adjust and the threshold value is unknown so I am just saying use this as a guide if you are feeling that it is getting tough. Ideally this would be on RPE, but as the main purpose of the exercise is to identify what effort can be maintained, this would be circular. One issue with HR is worrying about your HR will increase your HR! I find that even in SS rowing my HR rises 2-4BPM at the end of every interval due to increased focus to try and keep the pacing right. I can lower HR by about 2BPM merely by relaxing and smiling. What you are looking for is where your HR is rising unsustainably. Initially it may take quite some time to get up to this level. I do not understand why this varies so much between people. I know some people who have a gradual HR rise from 8 - 30 min in a 10k while mine flattens around 15 min. You are looking to hold at or just below threshold when your HR should be at an inflection so all things being equal (which they never are!) your HR would remain pretty constant. Your HR should rise above this at the end as the drift from dehydration etc. will catch up and then you need to dig in and you may see a higher HR than previously by the end. The adjustments are to ensure that this is sustainable. A 10k is a different beast to a 2k (or even 5k) in that the "distress" experienced is more muscular without the "suffocating" feeling not occurring. That said, we cannot over compensate for muscle tiring by upping the rating too high as this will put too high a strain on the CV system.

Hope it goes well.

Iain

[aegis]

These are all intervals, with rest in between - not steady state, right?

Thanks for having raised this (this was important !).
How did you spot these were intervals, and not the 6km and 7.5km SS of the BPP ?

@iain ok thanks for the details of what I have to do. Let me try tomorrow and revert. In fact I think what you are describing is me fixing my HR at 168-170 and adjust my pace so as to stay in this zone. Pretty much I think.

Ah I didn't realise that you didn't know I was talking about intervals. You will see greater progress in the SS pace, I started at 2:3xm/500m and am at just below 2:20m/500m now. To see greater progress will require more volume I think, I can't really swing more time but it's also ok as I'm doing this mainly for general health and not racing. I just want to see steady progress over time.

[fancyoats]

W7S3 8000m
This felt much better, more controlled.


My face is still pretty red though. I think I need to get a nice big fan pointed at me. I bet that would help a lot. Especially because we are headed into summer which tends to be very humid in my area.

[winniewinser]

BPP W10S3 - 8km....6km steady then push a bit more on last 2km.

33:41.7 8,000m 02:06.3 173 897 19
08:30.3 2,000m 02:07.5 169 880 19
08:29.8 4,000m 02:07.4 169 881 19
08:29.1 6,000m 02:07.2 170 884 19
08:12.5 8,000m 02:03.1 188 945 19

A big fan defo helps @fancyoats.....as does an AC unit

[Sakly]

I think I need to get a nice big fan pointed at me.

A big fan defo helps @fancyoats.....as does an AC unit

Would die without my fan!

Good sessions