Ranger's training thread

[aharmer]

Nice work intentionally adding a typo to my post when you quote it. What a complete jackass.

[bloomp]

Do you really want to talk politics? Because I really don't mind derailing this thread to prove how stupid you really are.

Political differences are not about intelligence and stupidity, although liberals like you (stupidly) think so.

Ad hominem arguments are no arguments at all.

They are just snobbery, or viciousness.

ranger

I'm no liberal, I support what is best for the populace of this nation. And that does not include less regulation on corporations, less regulation on insurance and financial companies. Cavalier environmental and corporate policies led to the recent disaster in the Gulf of Mexico - courtesy of companies like BP, Exxon and Haliburton cronying up with politicians (on both sides). Cavalier policy with respect to the financial sector has led to numerous counts of fraud, corporate irresponibilty and greed determining company policies. You can't trust people when money is the only motivation anymore. Some larger body must step in and regulate.

I find it funny how the conservative right doesn't want regulations or goverment interference at all, yet they're all too quick to enforce their beliefs on everyone. No abortion, no premarital sex, no alcohol, no gay marriage. Wait that's just religion dictating state decisions! You're not some blind follower are you Rich? You clearly have the mental capacity to think for yourself and see that.

[whp4]

Where free speech is not allowed, I don't see any possibilities of productive discussion.

So it goes.

I am out of here.

Yet another claim of yours proven wrong!

If you don't have the mental toughness to stay away from the forum for at least a day or two after that, there is no way you will be able to gut out a sub-6:30 2k, or a 17+k hour, or any of your other ridiculous predictions of your potential. Weak in thought and in deed.

[ranger]

I find it funny how the conservative right doesn't want regulations or goverment interference at all

Not true at all, Paul.

Wall Street recognizes the need for regulating the types of trading that resulted in the recent financial debacle.

ranger

[ranger]

Wait that's just religion dictating state decisions! You're not some blind follower are you Rich?

Clearly, the major weakness in our constitution is ethical.

The founding fathers assumed that life is essentially religious.

They couldn't imagine the politics of a secular society, in which it isn't.

Ironically, without an explicit role for religion in government, in our increasingly secular society, government has had to intervene (illegitimately?) and become more and more religious, rather than remaining secular.

What is "best" for the people is an ethical matter, not a political one.

Politics is about justice, not goodness.

Religion is about goodness.

What is good is often not at all just.

And what is both good and just is often not at all true (or beautiful).

Some of these problems are relevant to the problems with this forum.

The erg is a truth machine.

But social cohesion is all about justice, and for the most part, systems of justice are very large, albeit humane, lies.

Nature/Truth is red tooth and claw, an eye for an eye.

Truth doesn't have anything to do with (restorative, procedural, or distributive) justice.

Life is hard.

Then you die.

In the end, you don't get what you want or deserve.

So it goes.

The erg is a truth machine.

ranger

[ranger]

I assume that nature is our best teacher.

This political position isn't liberal or consevative--or even reactionary.

You might call it, uh, um, radical.

ranger

[JohnBove]

Clearly, the major weakness in our constitution is ethical.

The founding fathers assumed that life is essentially religious.

They couldn't imagine the politics of a secular society, in which it isn't.

Ironically, without an explicit role for religion in government, in our increasingly secular society, government has had to intervene (illegitimately?) and become more and more religious, rather than remaining secular.

What is "best" for the people is an ethical matter, not a political one.

Politics is about justice, not goodness.

Religion is about goodness.

What is good is often not at all just.

And what is both good and just is often not at all true (or beautiful).

Some of these problems are relevant to the problems with this forum.

The erg is a truth machine.

But social cohesion is all about justice, and for the most part, systems of justice are very large, albeit humane, lies.

Nature/Truth is red tooth and claw, an eye for an eye.

Truth doesn't have anything to do with (restorative, procedural, or distributive) justice.

Life is hard.

Then you die.

In the end, you don't get what you want or deserve.

So it goes.

The erg is a truth machine.

ranger

If you ever wondered over whether the root of this (and his many other) threads was mental instability, this post should provide adequate answer. Factually wrong, philosophically incoherent, psychologically suspect.

[jliddil]

The founding fathers assumed that life is essentially religious.

They couldn't imagine the politics of a secular society, in which it isn't.

Ironically, without an explicit role for religion in government, in our increasingly secular society, government has had to intervene (illegitimately?) and become more and more religious, rather than remaining secular.

What is "best" for the people is an ethical matter, not a political one.

Politics is about justice, not goodness.

Religion is about goodness.
ranger

Unsupported by any facts. And you claim to read a great deal?

[JohnBove]

Already did, without even trying.

Without even trying? You trained for a year (or 2 or 3 or 4 or whatever, depending on the particular lie) to reach 6:16, at which you failed miserably. You also failed to break -- didn't come close to -- Roy's (soft) record.

This last year, no one my age and weight (or older) came within 20 seconds of my 2K.

And the man (THE MAN!) who's going to go 6:16 is reduced to comparing himself to (and repeatedly posting the accumulated times of) rowers all in their sixties.

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (59–70) | 2010 Season

1 Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.4 RACE
2 Hugh Pite 65 Sidney BC CAN 7:02.7 RACE
3 Robert Lakin 61 Wichita KS USA 7:03.6 RACE
4 Gregory Brock 62 Santa Cruz CA USA 7:03.9 IND
5 Rolf Meek 59 Oslo NOR 7:05.4 IND
6 Jerry Lawson 62 USA 7:06.0 RACE
6 Gerald Lawson 62 Winona MN USA 7:06.0 IND
8 Leif Petersen 64 DEN 7:08.5 RACE
9 Peter Francis 61 Denver CO USA 7:09.3 RACE
10 Roger Prowse 65 GBR 7:10.3 RACE

Gobble gobble gobble.

[bloomp]

Wait that's just religion dictating state decisions! You're not some blind follower are you Rich?

Clearly, the major weakness in our constitution is ethical.

The founding fathers assumed that life is essentially religious.

They couldn't imagine the politics of a secular society, in which it isn't.

Ironically, without an explicit role for religion in government, in our increasingly secular society, government has had to intervene (illegitimately?) and become more and more religious, rather than remaining secular.

What is "best" for the people is an ethical matter, not a political one.

Politics is about justice, not goodness.

Religion is about goodness.

What is good is often not at all just.

And what is both good and just is often not at all true (or beautiful).

Some of these problems are relevant to the problems with this forum.

The erg is a truth machine.

But social cohesion is all about justice, and for the most part, systems of justice are very large, albeit humane, lies.

Nature/Truth is red tooth and claw, an eye for an eye.

Truth doesn't have anything to do with (restorative, procedural, or distributive) justice.

Life is hard.

Then you die.

In the end, you don't get what you want or deserve.

So it goes.

The erg is a truth machine.

ranger

First - the founding fathers had a perfect chance to make this nation follow one religion. They didn't because they saw where that unilateral thinking got Great Britain. They could have written into the constitution that we had to follow a sabbath on Sundays (as was the case in colonial America). They didn't, and the separation of church and state is guaranteed by the first amendment. Had church and state been one and the same, there would be no freedom of religion or any belief. The state would enforce what it wanted everyone to believe. No truth, simply mindless following. No justice, just squishing anyone's potentially different belief system. No goodness because when everyone believes the same thing, there is no reason to advance those beliefs. It would be the middle ages (or 1984) all over again.

Second - justice is GOOD. In the work of J.S. Mills, you hear of utilitarianism. The greatest possible good for the greatest number of people. Justice works to give the most people the most good - however it does fail in most cases. Religion is not necessarily good, e.g. crusades and fundamentalism, but it has the potential to inspire good from those who make the most of it.

Humans do not follow your 'natural' laws. That is the point of society, to provide us with a new nature. If we were below apes then the vile brutality of nature would definitely dictate how we lived, yet we are well beyond that level of understanding and have found that society provides for truth. Justice determines truth - whether you believe it or not it is what the law states as true. Even apes have a primitive concept of society where nature has much less of an impact than one would imagine - hell most herding animals have a system of protecting certain members of the group. Nature is not what you suggest it to be and the only truth from nature is that we have evolved (you do believe in evolution, correct?) to be a being capable of doing more than killing, eating and sleeping. That's what gives you the time to post here, work out 3-6 hours per day and still teach!

[jliddil]

This is no longer an open forum.

It is gone the way of the British forum.

It is being heavily censored in order to fit a certain sort of party line.



I am out of here.

ranger

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[ranger]

You agree that “Concept2 Forum” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit.

Sure, Dougie has the power to remove my posts--at will, randomly, and for no reason.

That's the law.

The law determines what is considered just in a social order.

Is it "good" that Dougie is removing my posts--at will, randomly, and for no reason?

_He_ seems to think so.

So do many others.

So it goes in this social order.

ranger

[ranger]

Humans do not follow your 'natural' laws. That is the point of society, to provide us with a new nature.

As I said, I don't believe this at all.

IMO, social evolution is just as imperious and natural as biological evolution.

We don't do it; it is done to us.

Our conception of justice at any given time is just a moment in this historical process.

Truth lies in the evolving forms of the historical process itself, and more fundamentally, in the origins of this process outside of our reach entirely--in the nature of time.

Rhythm creates time.

So, for me, rhythm is God.

We are just expressions of our temporalities.

ranger

[ranger]

Second - justice is GOOD. In the work of J.S. Mills, you hear of utilitarianism.

Yes, our conception of justice at any moment is heavily realistic/pragmatic.

It is embedded in historical processes (physical, biological, social, cultural) and so is constantly evolving.

Justice is "applied" ethics.

Goodness is more ideal and historically stable, but not entirely so, either.

In any event, goodness logically precedes justice--and truth is more basic yet.

My question is not whether Dougie's actions are just.

My question is whether they are good.

And beyond that, whether they are true.

This seems important, given that the erg is a truth machine.

It isn't just.

ranger

[PaulH]

Sure, Dougie has the power to remove my posts--at will, randomly, and for no reason.

True

Dougie is removing my posts--at will, randomly, and for no reason

Liar