Pete Plan Autumn 2015

[ericallenboyd]

w2d5, 5k

[jackarabit]

Mike Pfirrman writes:

Also, starting today, forgot to mention that I'm putting my workout times in my online log. It didn't click with me until someone mentioned (Glenn or Hardy I think) that you can use your last PP round to gauge your pace for the next round. I was just logging my meters and overall time and then putting just 8 X 500m into the log before. Now I'm putting this information in it too. It was a bit too arduous to go back through the entire thread to find my times from the last go around.

This may be an unfortunate but forseeable oversight of rePeteing the training thread with some old hands who were familiar with the mechanism of pacing improvement and forgot that others were not. The time for bibliography and class handouts is Day 1. That's exactly what old Miss Magillicutty did first day back when you were a pimply-faced schoolboy, right? The Pete Plan is NOT the Holy Gospel of erg training but it is a distinct erg training method that comes with the author's instructions on how to proceed contained in a single document: The Pete "Lunch Hour" Plan. If we do this virtual training again, we need to nail down the basics early in the game--no rower left behind, etc. However, the governing document has been linked more than once in the thread. In a day when doctors, lawyers and retail indian chiefs all want us to use our business supplies to print out their instructions, the busiest and most minimally-engaged among us are prepared to google and hit print--and should do so. Due diligence without a trip to the bookstore or library, chaps!

Glenn writes:

So on the British forum "Pete Plan" thread, HE says to take your average from today's session and do all but the last at that pace next time. The last is all out to set a new average (hopefully)

I believe our Spirit Guide says much the same in the Wordpress version of PP and the same basic idea (last week's result the launchpad for this week's effort) also governs Pete Beginner Plan. I have come round to the view that for interval training, flat-paced all but the last rep may produce a smoother, gentler rate of impovement than does negative splitting. Almost everyone here has attempted a negative-paced interval session for which pace graphed as a sawtooth or wavy line and which ended, with fair frequency, in an HD or other late inning flips and splatters. Negative pacing does add an element of uncertainty that some of us enjoy at least some of the time. I am not absolutely opposed to dragging personal training baggage along with us into a new experience (Galeere, Glenn, and I all did this with HR zone pace governors.), but observe once again that we need to acknowledge our departures from the stone tablets for the benefit of those who want to pursue a single and presumably coherent and logically-consistent training plan.

[mdpfirrman]

Thanks Jack. Found it interesting that what Glenn mentions ends up to be (more or less) what I actually did do - ended up using the last number average for the most part for my first seven intervals with a slight negative split time and then really tried to hammer the last one. I dropped my average a good bit. While that's great, the new number is a bit intimidating to me for next time out but I'll give it a go and see how that works out (using what Pete suggests on the UK thread).

I suppose if you don't hit your average from last round on your first seven intervals, it's not the worst thing in the world, it just means you readjust for the next round (if it goes up, so does your average the next time because it's assuming you weren't ready yet to kick it up physically). I'm all for living on the edge on these workouts, especially the short intervals.

No worries on not spelling it out more to the Newbies. It is spelled out somewhere, whether on the old thread, this thread or in the blog itself by Marston. I almost think you have to actually experience failure to learn from it the hard way before it sinks in. Just last week, I had that epic fail where I read what to do in advance and still disregarded it. Now I know what not to disregard. Doing PP in unison with others does lead to some foolhardy pace goals for the sake of competition. I personally forget too often that rowing is truly a competition of one.

Nice work Eric on your 5K session!

[jackarabit]

I suppose if you don't hit your average from last round on your first seven intervals, it's not the worst thing in the world, it just means you readjust for the next round (if it goes up, so does your average the next time because it's assuming you weren't ready yet to kick it up physically). I'm all for living on the edge on these workouts, especially the short intervals.

Exactly! Self-regulating process which implies equilibration to individual limits. So why does Marston say that following his plan, "you will always be faster than the week before!"? A very accomplished indoor rower has objected that this is not possible. I interpret this to mean that one will always be faster at any time while following a hybrid plan than one will be during the base meters, LSD phase of a periodized plan. Absolute performance will of course reach a finite peak.

[bisqeet]

Mike Pfirrman writes:

Also, starting today, forgot to mention that I'm putting my workout times in my online log. It didn't click with me until someone mentioned (Glenn or Hardy I think) that you can use your last PP round to gauge your pace for the next round. I was just logging my meters and overall time and then putting just 8 X 500m into the log before. Now I'm putting this information in it too. It was a bit too arduous to go back through the entire thread to find my times from the last go around.

This may be an unfortunate but forseeable oversight of rePeteing the training thread with some old hands who were familiar with the mechanism of pacing improvement and forgot that others were not. The time for bibliography and class handouts is Day 1. That's exactly what old Miss Magillicutty did first day back when you were a pimply-faced schoolboy, right? The Pete Plan is NOT the Holy Gospel of erg training but it is a distinct erg training method that comes with the author's instructions on how to proceed contained in a single document: The Pete "Lunch Hour" Plan. If we do this virtual training again, we need to nail down the basics early in the game--no rower left behind, etc. However, the governing document has been linked more than once in the thread. In a day when doctors, lawyers and retail indian chiefs all want us to use our business supplies to print out their instructions, the busiest and most minimally-engaged among us are prepared to google and hit print--and should do so. Due diligence without a trip to the bookstore or library, chaps!

Glenn writes:

So on the British forum "Pete Plan" thread, HE says to take your average from today's session and do all but the last at that pace next time. The last is all out to set a new average (hopefully)

I believe our Spirit Guide says much the same in the Wordpress version of PP and the same basic idea (last week's result the launchpad for this week's effort) also governs Pete Beginner Plan. I have come round to the view that for interval training, flat-paced all but the last rep may produce a smoother, gentler rate of impovement than does negative splitting. Almost everyone here has attempted a negative-paced interval session for which pace graphed as a sawtooth or wavy line and which ended, with fair frequency, in an HD or other late inning flips and splatters. Negative pacing does add an element of uncertainty that some of us enjoy at least some of the time. I am not absolutely opposed to dragging personal training baggage along with us into a new experience (Galeere, Glenn, and I all did this with HR zone pace governors.), but observe once again that we need to acknowledge our departures from the stone tablets for the benefit of those who want to pursue a single and presumably coherent and logically-consistent training plan.

what i (try) to do is take the average pace of the complete interval session (including the last round blow out), round it up and use that as the next target pace for that session.
then on that session use the target for all but the last - the last is an all out effort.

I did notice on yesterdays effort that my target of 1:54 for the 5x1500 was too easy. hence the new target based on the average pace from all 5 will be 1:50.

[Galeere]

The PP-rule is clear: Take the average time of your last round as target pace for all intervals but the last one. Last one is all out.
IMO that still leaves leverage for slight negative splitting just for the beauty of it. So if Pete calls for a 8x500 m with a steady 7x 1:45 (=average pace of last 8x500) and 1x all out, I personally would try to negative split the first 7 intervals by 0.1 secs anyhow. To mirrow Petes pacing suggesttion that woul call for a start at 1:45.3 and bring it down to 1:44.6 on the seventh interval (-> average target pace would still be 1:45). And then go even faster for the last one. But that is me, my personal favorite to adress work like this. Makes it more interesting and I also think it´s better to sort of escalate into the pain. Also, if it´s a good day or pacing was too conservative to begin with (a too conservative first round will automatically lead to a conservative second round) it might be possible to negative split a bit more and have a result below target on the first 7 intervals as well. But better to gain those seconds towards the end than to try to gain them in the beginning with the result of a blow-up or handle-down.

[G-dub]

After all, one of the reasons to do these brutal things is to spend as much time as possible at a determined pace and/ or level of effort. During this time we can get acclimated to the pace and rate and develop good form as well as getting fitter at that pace. And on the last we can practice the big sprint.

[mdpfirrman]

Great input as always gentleman. Thanks. Steady state rowing day today. 8K / 25 SPM average / pace right at 2:10 or so until I got bored right at the end. Not much to report except that my son came home from our other gym (the one that I used to lift at and go to more often) and told me that they now have two rowers!! Now I have gym memberships to two close by gyms with rowers. I might have to call in advance before tomorrow to ensure that they are indeed Concept2 rowers. I also have to decide if keeping the other gym membership is worth it (we got a dirt cheap price for both gyms - we go to two gyms for around $75 per month for 3 people right now). Almost hate to let one gym membership lapse at that price. I know I won't get it again.

[jackarabit]

C2W1S1
Speed intervals
8x750m/1R
Pace target 2k+5.5' (2:10)
Df 109
Fletcher warmup 3950m
2500m CD

Got a bit rammy on #6 and paid it back on 7. Rating up might have put 7 inline but it was a dark moment and I gave up. The whole shebab averages 2k+5 which says my pace falls off steeply with even moderate increase in distance as Lindsay H. and Dean pegged this one to 2k+3. Pleasantly surprised that I work at all on 1' rest. And a CTC in the bargain. Money in the bank.

[bisqeet]

Nice work, Jack. Number 7 looked as though you had to work on it. But looking at 8..... great way to finish!!!!

This will be my row tomorrow. Not as a ctc participant as I don't have a team, but it looks like a tough one. The 1 min rest looks as though it will be tough...

[jackarabit]

Thanks Dean. You will stomp on it with both feet. After you have a go, goto C2CTC, join the FORVM FLYERS and enter your total time. What was that again? FORVM FLYERS. Louder! FORVM FLYERS! I can't hear you! FORVM FLYERS!!

[Shawn Baker]

Jack nice work on the row (and the recruiting!!)- I understand that by joining the forum flyers you automatically improve your 2k time by 20 seconds!

[G-dub]

Not well yet. Still got a cough and crud. So...

2 X eddy fletcher warm up. About 40 min at various paces and rates. Hopefully will do intervals tomorrow if it feels right.

[jackarabit]

Hey Doc. Don't I wish!

[G-dub]

Nice sessions Jack! I don't think you have buggered any of them this time - not that you did last time either! Please allow me a piecemeal week as I try to dodge this cold.