The Two Types of Training

[aharmer]

I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know how to submit a time as IND_V. Would somebody mind PM'ing me with that process? Thanks!

[ranger]

A "couple of months"? I thought you were going to be wowing us over the next few weeks with amazing results!

And if "racing reflects your training", then your training is going lousy, since your racing has been lousy.

And after you "sharpen" for a couple of months more, and "bring out the base", you will be "ready to race", but there will conveniently be no more races available until the beginning of the next indoor racing season. All race results from this year will be of course meaningless because you were not, in fact, racing.

You will then post "results" (after not being able to show them in a race), but avoid posting them to online ranking as IND_V, despite the fact that doing so is trivial.

From now on, I will be sharpening, racing, and posting results IN_V continuously until my times plateau.

I will be wowing you over the next few weeks?

I don't know.

If I pull 6:30 on Sunday, that's eight seconds under the 55s WR, even though I am a few days from being 60.

That's doing pretty well, don't you think.

Then I have two weeks left in this racing season to continue to push my times down.

The projection, had I continued to train traditionally, is that I would now be pulling 6:42, fully trained.

I suppose we'll have to wait and see what I pull when I am fully trained, but I suspect I am about half way there, and if I pull 6:30 on Sunday, I will already be a dozen seconds beyond that expectation.

The best 60s lwt row at WIRC historically has been 6:50.8.

ranger

[jliddil]

There is no greater joy than soaring high on the wings of your dreams, except maybe the joy of watching a dreamer who has nowhere to land but in the oceanof reality

[Citroen]

I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know how to submit a time as IND_V. Would somebody mind PM'ing me with that process? Thanks!

http://www.concept2.com/sranking03/code_explanation.asp

You don't need that if you use the C2 Utility (or RowPro) to automatically update your logbook.

[TomR]

My stroke is now perfected.

I expect to have sex with Penelope Cruz any day now.

That would be an easy AT session.

Neither hjs nor Byron know how elegant my stroke is.

Mike VB has a weak stroke. Obviously Penelope prefers to sharpen with me.

With my perfect stroke, my heart rate will remain almost flat while Penelope and I do the horizontal 2k.

In principal, hjs will owe me $1000 US.

Sure Tom,

And if I win My next context with stroking contest with Scarlett Johansson and score WR in point's on that I will send you the money

Scarlett is a fine choice, Henry. She's certainly the equivalent a 6.16 2k.

Once my stroke is sharpened, and Penelope is mine, I will set have set a WR of some kind.

You still owe me $1,000. So does skinny Mike.

[Nosmo]

I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know how to submit a time as IND_V. Would somebody mind PM'ing me with that process? Thanks!

http://www.concept2.com/sranking03/code_explanation.asp

You don't need that if you use the C2 Utility (or RowPro) to automatically update your logbook.

Dougie, You are conveying real information. Is that allowed on this thread?

[JimR]

... I suppose we'll have to wait and see what I pull when I am fully trained, but I suspect I am about half way there ...

Since it has taken you like 10 years to get to thist point are you saying in another 10 years you will be at your peak?

That would be when you are 80 something right?

JimR

[BrianStaff]

I don't know how far Clevelend is from Ann Arbor

About 170 miles

[ranger]

... I suppose we'll have to wait and see what I pull when I am fully trained, but I suspect I am about half way there ...

Since it has taken you like 10 years to get to thist point are you saying in another 10 years you will be at your peak?

That would be when you are 80 something right?

JimR

No, when I say I am half the way there to being fully trained, I was speaking too loosely.

What I meant was that I am about half way _sharpened_.

If we call sharpening anything done over your anaerobic threshold, I suppose I have been doing some sort of sharpening for a month or so now, perhaps six weeks (the first week in January), albeit most of it just AT work, and even so, still with an emphasis more on UT1 than AT.

I now need to switch my major focus to AT, with strong forays into TR and AN, pushing my heart rate to the max.

So, given this, I think I could have as much as six weeks to go before I bring out my base entirely, and even so, only if I really push to the limits from here on out, which I will need to be careful with, given my age.

Sure, establishing your ideal base takes a lot longer than 6 weeks, or even three months.

It takes several years.

It took Mike C. five years of double sessions, rigorously regimented, with balanced, rotating workouts in all of the training bands (i.e., the Wolverine Plan), to get to a peak high enough to set the 40s lwt WR.

That WR has now stood for close to decade.

No one has come anywhere near it, and it looks as though even Eskild E.might not be able to touch it when he turns 40 in three years.

At 37, Eskild is now pulling 6:16.

Mike C.'s 40s lwt WR record is 6:18.

On the average, for the best rowers, the decline with age is about a second a year over 2K.

So, Eskild will be hard-pressed to hold the line against age so that he has a chance of besting it when he turns 40.

BTW, over the five years that Mike spent building up his base when he was 35-40 years old, he got right about a dozen seconds better over 2K, pushing his 2K times down from 6:30 to 6:18, just what I hope to have gain, too, pushing his 2K time down 2-3 seconds a year.

Over five years, most masters, senior, and veteran ergers who neglect their base and just race their training _lose_ 5-10 seconds over 2K, rather than gaining them.

The swing in times, then, that depends on your training strategy (smart vs. stupid) can be as much as 20 seconds for each half a decade, 40 seconds for a full decade.

ranger

[ranger]

It is clear:

If you learn how to row well (13 SPI for lightweights; 16 SPI for heavyweights), the whole ballgame in training for your best 2K is learning to be maximally efficient with it.

I think the best measure of this maximal efficiency is your ability to hold your technique together while you pull 10 MPS at steady state for 60min under your anaerobic threshold.

10 MPS rowing is somewhat lighter rowing that rowing well, but not by much, perhaps 2 SPI at most, and in the best case, 1 SPI.

For lightweights, then, 1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI) is the ideal, while for heavyweights, 1:34 @ 32 spm (14 SPI) is the ideal.

So, this:

Once you learn how to row well, training yourself up to your full potential for the 2K boils down to your top-end UT1 rowing.

How efficient can you be?

How far/fast can you row 60min @ 10 MPS?

No one can row 60min _over_ their anaerobic threshold, so the duration and distance itself enforces a HR cap on a 60min trial.

Except for a bit of a dash at the end, a 60min trial is a steady-state, sub-threshold effort.

For those who trained up fully for it, 60min is done at 2K + 10.

Give or take a bit on either side, 1:40 for a 55-65 year old lightweight is WR 2K pace.

ranger

[ranger]

I thought you were going to be wowing us over the next few weeks with amazing results!

Well, I will indeed be disappointed, I think, if I don't best the 55s lwt WR before the end of this official racing season for me on March 6th in Detroit.

It seems to me that I will have plenty of time to sharpen enough to get this done.

I am not sure that a WR row is sufficient to "wow" you, but even just WR rows in the under 70s male ranks are pretty rare affairs, no?

Many of the WRs have stood for quite some time.

Eskild's 30s lwt mark, Mike C.'s 40s lwt mark, Ripley's 50s hwt mark, and Hendershott's 60s hwt mark have all stood for a decade or so, give or take, with Ripley's mark standing much longer than that, pushing 15 years.

Roy Brook's 55s lwt mark and Brian Bailey's 60s lwt mark have now stood for about five years.

So the only record-breaking in these under-70 male ranks over the last five years or so, and for many divisions, for the last decade or so, or even 15 years, has been done in the Open ranks, the 30s and 40s hwts, and the 50s lwts, and even those WR rows have been just a handful.

If I can pull sub-6:30 over the next couple of weeks, that is, if I can just rate 31 spm and pull through a 2K to end at a flat pace, I will break the 55s lwt WR by 10 seconds or so.

Then, I can continue to sharpen for another six weeks or so, pushing my 2K time down from there.

No 60s lwt has ever come anywhere near a sub-6:30 row.

The best 60s lwt row at WIRC historically has been 6:50.8.

It appears that the best ergers parallel to me in age and weight at the moment (Roy Brook and Mike VB ) are now pulling something like that 6:50, with even that time slowing down steadily at a rate of about two seconds a year.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, looking forward to next year, when I will be 60 years old for WIRC, I think I have a real chance of training myself to row 30 spm @ 10MPS for 60min.

That would be pretty amazing.

That's the ideal for a lightweight of any age.

I have the aerobic capacity, stroking power/effectiveness, and most of the efficiency to do it--right now.

What remains to be done will just come along naturally from routine daily rowing, if I keep it effective and efficient.

ranger

[snowleopard]

It is clear:

I don't think so.

[ranger]

Wow.

I am going to be racing at 12.5 SPI.

1:36 @ 32 spm is solid as a rock.

Just stroking naturally.

Man.

I _really_ did my homework on technque and stroking power.

Seven years of it!

No reason to even go any faster than 1:36 at the moment, not until I get great endurance and relaxation with it.

I just need to lock onto it and stretch it out from 500s, to 750s, to 1Ks, to 2Ks, etc.

Hey, maybe even, no, really?, are you kiddin' me?, 5K?

Wow.

Relative to what I could do back in 2002-2003, that would be an improvement of 7 seconds per 500m in a 5K, even though I am seven years older and now approaching 60.

There's that seven seconds per 500m again!

If I get to 4 x 2K @ 1:36, it predicts a 6:08 2K, the 50s _heavyweight_ WR, which has been unassailable for so long, even by heavyweights, not to mention lightweights.

No reason to rate over 32 spm!

_Very_ efficient cadence.

Smooth as butta.

20 x 500m, 1:36 @ 32 spm (12.5 SPI)

Coming up.

That predicts (at least!) a 6:24 2K, right now.

Then, when I raise the rate to 36 spm...

Zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmm.

12.5 SPI @ 36 spm is just that, a 6:08 2K.

1:32 pace.

It looks as though I am going to be doing _all_ of my training, even most intense sharpening and hard distance rowing, and then even my racing, _very_ close to 10 MPS, that is, with maximal efficiency.

Pretty impressive business going on here.

For a little lightweight like me, 32 spm is a 5K rate.

ranger

[Citroen]

Wow.

I am going to be racing at 12.5 SPI.

It's not SPI that counts it's turning up at the venue, making weight then rowing 2000m in a shorter time than anyone else in your age/weight group. SPI doesn't matter a f**k.

You seem to be failing at that first hurdle this year. And the one time you didn't fail to turn up; you pulled, what is for you, a pathetic 7:11. How you can call that any sort of acheivement for 100,000,000m of rowing amazes all the nay-sayers.