Ranger's training thread

[snowleopard]

If I do indeed pull 6:20 at BIRC 2010, what I have said here has been just a standard reporting of my training, not lies at all, as the forum has assumed, and there should be apologies all around, although I wonder whether the apologies should be accepted, given the length and pitch of the unfounded accusations I have had to put up with here.

And if you don't pull 6:20 at BIRC what you have said here will be shown for what it is

[ranger]

Sure, I'll do _very_ well at BIRC, ...

ranger

I for one hope you do. It will only happen if you get to a realistic assessment of your capabilities.

Sure, but that doesn't justify--at all--any assumption to the contrary, until the results of the training are in.

The forum could be dead wrong--and usually is.

ranger

[ranger]

If I do indeed pull 6:20 at BIRC 2010, what I have said here has been just a standard reporting of my training, not lies at all, as the forum has assumed, and there should be apologies all around, although I wonder whether the apologies should be accepted, given the length and pitch of the unfounded accusations I have had to put up with here.

And if you don't pull 6:20 at BIRC what you have said here will be shown for what it is

Sure.

I am happy to take those consequences, just as Mike VB was, when he found out that he missed his goals by three seconds per 500m OTErg and five seconds per 500m OTW.

As Mike has illustrated, it is lamentable, but it can happen.

I am sure that Mike will apologize for his mistakes, and then get on with it in a more realistic way rather than lying through his teeth to us, day in and day out.

ranger

[mikvan52]

In addition to all the rowing 1:37 @ 30 spm, over the next month, I will want to get to 60'r20 @ 1:50.

ranger

You said this on September 19th. That's well over a month ago, so how did it go?

(getting back to training analysis) I welcome this..

readers will note that there are few 55-59 ltws who have actually approached 1:50 pace for an hour at any rate.
I am one.
I logged it IND_V.
I can state, categorically that r.20 1:50 pace is not achievable by any 59 year old lwt... who has no 55-59 lwt background in doing such pieces.
I know how 1:51 r.24 feels.
I have the record.

Remember: What someone does over the 165 lb limit should be factored... The factor is roughly 0.4 sec per lb per 2k...
(source = Concept2)

[mikvan52]

If I do indeed pull 6:20 at BIRC 2010, what I have said here has been just a standard reporting of my training, not lies at all, as the forum has assumed, and there should be apologies all around, although I wonder whether the apologies should be accepted, given the length and pitch of the unfounded accusations I have had to put up with here.

And if you don't pull 6:20 at BIRC what you have said here will be shown for what it is

Sure.

I am happy to take those consequences, just as Mike VB was, when he found out that he missed his goals by three seconds per 500m OTErg and five seconds per 500m OTW.

As Mike has illustrated, it is lamentable, but it can happen.

I am sure that Mike will apologize for his mistakes, and then get on with it in a more realistic way rather than lying through his teeth to us, day in and day out.

ranger

Very right Rich.
My mistake to have a reasonable goal that I have already matched this year at the Black Fly Regatta (5800m)?
My bad

It was totally unrealistic of me to hope for something I've already done this year
I apologize.
My parity w/scullers w/whom I competed throughout this fall head racing season has no bearing on reality whatsoever. The results as reported in various events on regattacentral.com must have been falsified.

[Flipper21]

Rich Cureton (59) 6:20
Paul Siebach (50) 6:25.1
Graham Watt (50) 6:25.8
Jean-Paul Tardieu (50) 6:31.6
Dennis Hastings (51) 6:33
Chris Bertram (50) 6:37.7
Roy Brook (55) 6:38

What did I miss? CONGRATULATIONS on a NW and personal PB. All the talk and up pops this.. remarkable effort Rich. When did this happen?

[PaulH]

In addition to all the rowing 1:37 @ 30 spm, over the next month, I will want to get to 60'r20 @ 1:50.

ranger

You said this on September 19th. That's well over a month ago, so how did it go?

Thought you might have missed this, but I'm keen to hear your result - so, how did it go?

[Byron Drachman]

Rich Cureton (59) 6:20
Paul Siebach (50) 6:25.1
Graham Watt (50) 6:25.8
Jean-Paul Tardieu (50) 6:31.6
Dennis Hastings (51) 6:33
Chris Bertram (50) 6:37.7
Roy Brook (55) 6:38

What did I miss? CONGRATULATIONS on a NW and personal PB. All the talk and up pops this.. remarkable effort Rich. When did this happen?

Flipper,

Ranger is being overly modest. He is not bragging because he is actually better than he says he is. He has done many virtual 2K's at 6:00, and even an astounding 5:46 virtual 2K.

March 24, 2007: True. The plan was to row 6:16 for 2K. But it looks as though I am going to row 6:00.

March 28, 2007: Next month, I will row 6:16. Roy's pb is 6:34. By the fall, I will row 6:00. As I do all of the races and prediction workouts, there will be no ambiguity in this conclusion: The gap between Roy and me is 8 seconds per 500m. First up: FM @ 1:48

Jan 30, 2010: I now row like Eskild. In fact, I might be faster. I might row under 6:00 for 2K.

Feb 13, 2010: I now row _very_ well. _Both_ effectiveness and efficiency are sky high.
The 2K prediction is 6:00.

March 27, 2007: Remember this force curve? 16.7 SPI There it is, easy as pie. UT1 rowing.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9691/dsc00295xb6.jpg

1:36 is UT1 rowing for a 5:46 2K. Watch out GB!

[ranger]

Mike VB is well-intentioned, but his claim that he was going to break the 55s lwt WR OTErg was silly. He never came anywhere near the record, and now misses it by a dozen seconds. It is hard to see why Mike made this claim, too. All of the 2k predictors that he rowed (not many!) predicted just what he ended up doing, and nothing more. He pulled 1:47 for 5K, 1:51 for 60min, etc. All of these rows predict right around 1:41-1:42 for 2K, not 1:39.5. Now, if he had pulled 16.5K for 60min and/or sub-17:30 for 5K, that would be another matter. But he didn't. Over the last decade, OTErg, Mike's times, across the board, haven't been anywhere near the best times in the 50s lwts. I guess that sticks in his craw, so he lies about his goals and training to try to inflate their value and make them sound interesting.

It is not quite as interesting to say, "I will get around 10th at the Head of the Charles and get within a dozen seconds of the 55s lwt WR OTErg." It sounds much better to say, "I will win/medal at the Head of the Charles and set a new 55s lwt WR OTErg," even though he has no hope of doing either.

Clearly, some folks, like Meyer and Anderson, trained really well and therefore were _very_ successful at the Head of the Charles, doing just about what Mike predicted that he would--19:20, etc. Mike missed this goal by 45 seconds.

Of course, Jon Bone does the same thing with his sprint workouts, implying that they predict something stable about 2K independent of a matching with longer rowers, which assess endurance and aerobic capacity, not just power or top-end speed. They don't.

Did Mike VB ever dod 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) @ 1:36, which is what you would need to do to predict the 55s lwt WR? Not that I know of.

While it is claimed here that I have given no evidence for my improvement over the years, that is not the case at all, as in my 500r30 @ 1:30, 1Kr24 @ 1:38, and sub-6:30 2K @ 12 SPI without even preparing for it. This is _much_ more evidence that I am right on track with my goals than Mike VB or Jon Bone have ever given that they are on track with theirs.

ranger

[snowleopard]

While it is claimed here that I have given no evidence for my improvement over the years, that is not the case at all, as in my 500r30 @ 1:30, 1Kr24 @ 1:38, and sub-6:30 2K @ 12 SPI without even preparing for it. This is _much_ more evidence that I am right on track with my goals.

That is evidence of nothing at all. It is ludicrous to present times at 500m and 1000m and suggest that they support all your other inflated claims.

First you would have to prove that you were the rower on those occasions. You merely presented screenshots. You have shown nothing since then that suggests you are capable of those times at those distances/rates or indeed that you are capable of any of the times that you predict for yourself.

Roy Brook is still the WR holder in your age group. You have failed, repeatedly, to take that record. And that despite claiming that the record was soft.

You have claimed down the years that you will row 4 x 2K @ 1:38. Where is that result? Let me guess, you couldn't find someone to row it for you.

Your result at BIRC will provide evidence aplenty. But please, be my guest, row 500m @ 1:30r30 now and post the screenshot. It will take you 90 seconds and you are obviously not busy.

[nharrigan]

It is not quite as interesting to say, "I will get around 10th at the Head of the Charles and get within a dozen seconds of the 55s lwt WR OTErg." It sounds much better to say, "I will win/medal at the Head of the Charles and set a new 55s lwt WR OTErg," even though he has no hope of doing either.

Clearly, some folks, like Meyer and Anderson, trained really well and therefore were _very_ successful at the Head of the Charles, doing just about what Mike predicted that he would--19:20, etc. Mike missed this goal by 45 seconds.
r

Headwind, Oh windbag.

[whp4]

It is not quite as interesting to say, "I will get around 10th at the Head of the Charles and get within a dozen seconds of the 55s lwt WR OTErg." It sounds much better to say, "I will win/medal at the Head of the Charles and set a new 55s lwt WR OTErg," even though I have no hope of doing either.

I fixed your pronouns and verbs for you to reflect reality.

[whp4]

This is _much_ more evidence that I am right on track with my goals.

ranger

No one should deny the impressive advances your goals have made over the years. It is the actual record of achievement of those goals which is so underwhelming

[PaulH]

In addition to all the rowing 1:37 @ 30 spm, over the next month, I will want to get to 60'r20 @ 1:50.

ranger

You said this on September 19th. That's well over a month ago, so how did it go?

Thought you might have missed this, but I'm keen to hear your result - so, how did it go?

Stop punishing me ranger, I'm dying to know - what happened?!

[ranger]

While it is claimed here that I have given no evidence for my improvement over the years, that is not the case at all, as in my 500r30 @ 1:30, 1Kr24 @ 1:38, and sub-6:30 2K @ 12 SPI without even preparing for it. This is _much_ more evidence that I am right on track with my goals.

That is evidence of nothing at all. It is ludicrous to present times at 500m and 1000m and suggest that they support all your other inflated claims.

First you would have to prove that you were the rower on those occasions. You merely presented screenshots. You have shown nothing since then that suggests you are capable of those times at those distances/rates or indeed that you are capable of any of the times that you predict for yourself.

Roy Brook is still the WR holder in your age group. You have failed, repeatedly, to take that record. And that despite claiming that the record was soft.

You have claimed down the years that you will row 4 x 2K @ 1:38. Where is that result? Let me guess, you couldn't find someone to row it for you.

Your result at BIRC will provide evidence aplenty. But please, be my guest, row 500m @ 1:30r30 now and post the screenshot. It will take you 90 seconds and you are obviously not busy.

This is carping, small-minded, unsympathetic, aggressive, etc.

Nothing admirable and generous in it at all.

I already did the rows I reference. One was a public race, and for the other two, I posted the screen shots. Yes, I did the rows.

The rows are indeed evidence for my claims. No 55s lwt has ever come close to rowing sub-6:30 for 2K, not to mention at 12 SPI, not to mention without even sharpening for it. Any lightweight who can pull 500r30 @ 1:30 can row sub-6:30, too, if not 6:20. I suspect that no other 50s lwt of any age can pull 500r30 @ 1:30, including Paul Siebach. That's 16 SPI. 1Kr24 @ 1:38 is also impressive. That's 15.5 SPI. The 55s lwt WR-holder did 1:44.5 for the same piece. Any lightweight who can row 1Kr24 @ 1:38 can row sub-6:30.

ranger