New Personal Best! Brag About That New Pb!

[MartinSH4321]

2k TT - 6:43,9 - -3sec

I finally did it!
This was a real "safety" effort as I wanted to avoid to risk a second HD, so I decided to start a bit faster, do the middle 1k at the pace I did at my previous 2k PB and at 500m to go pace up.
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Well done Martin. Great work just getting on and doing it and not letting the HD from last time fester in your mind.

Thank you Max, this effort was very important for my inner peace, now I can go on with my "normal" training routine

[winniewinser]

Thank you Max, this effort was very important for my inner peace, now I can go on with my "normal" training routine

I'd be interested to see if you see any effects on your training post the PB effort. It took me a good 7-10 days to recover mentally and physically having achieved my personal goal......but then I might just be a drama queen

[MartinSH4321]

Thank you Max, this effort was very important for my inner peace, now I can go on with my "normal" training routine

I'd be interested to see if you see any effects on your training post the PB effort. It took me a good 7-10 days to recover mentally and physically having achieved my personal goal......but then I might just be a drama queen

I think our TT are hardly comparable.
You hit an important milestone AND it was an all out effort on the edge, intensified by a very fast first 500m. No surprise both mind and body needed to relax.
My effort was hard, but only the last 200-300m were all out, today I feel like after a normal interval training, legs are a bit tired, but not more, and mentally it was a big relief to handle the recent failure. So no need to recover. I'll do my normal UT2 training today, tomorrow is rest day and Thursday intervals or TT (5k or 10k), depending on how I feel.
And I don't think you're a drama queen It's OK to recover after such a TT, maybe not everyone needs this, by I guess the majority

[hjs]

Martin, maybe have a look you pb av. Numbers to get a overview. It looks after 1k, you slow down a lot, and from 2k and beyond not so much anymore. See if you can spot things you could work on.
The difference between 1 and 2k is the biggest I have ever seen....

[MartinSH4321]

Martin, maybe have a look you pb av. Numbers to get a overview. It looks after 1k, you slow down a lot, and from 2k and beyond not so much anymore. See if you can spot things you could work on.
The difference between 1 and 2k is the biggest I have ever seen....

I think that's because of my sprinter's physique, I can produce good power, and a lot of lactic acid. For short distances I can stand the high acid level (big buffer I guess), but for longer distances I have to slow down according to my limited aerobic fitness, 2k is about 80% aerobic, so 1k properly about 60%.
As yesterday's effort wasn't an all out effort I wouldn't compare 3:05 and 6:43, but 3:05 (maybe a bit faster by now) and 6:40 (OK, haven't done it, but very likely I'll do it next time), that's a difference of about 3:35.
Looking at some signatures here, I find differences of 3:40 (lance), 3:36 (Alasdair), 3:30 (Keith).
I would say Keith is very good for comparison as we both have a strength training background, by now it looks like I'm stronger for the very short distances, we're about equal at 500m and for everything longer he is much fitter, so the difference (3:30 vs. 3:35) is there, but not that big.
I always thought my biggest weakness is my 5k.

If you mean that I don't use full potential for the longer distances, I think that's true. It's very hard for me to struggle through to longer pieces, for a short time I can stand the pain much better (propably because of my strength training background with short duration and a lot of pain, but no excuse ). I think 2ks and 5ks on a regular basis will help me working on this deficit.

[hjs]

Martin, maybe have a look you pb av. Numbers to get a overview. It looks after 1k, you slow down a lot, and from 2k and beyond not so much anymore. See if you can spot things you could work on.
The difference between 1 and 2k is the biggest I have ever seen....

I think that's because of my sprinter's physique, I can produce good power, and a lot of lactic acid. For short distances I can stand the high acid level (big buffer I guess), but for longer distances I have to slow down according to my limited aerobic fitness, 2k is about 80% aerobic, so 1k properly about 60%.
As yesterday's effort wasn't an all out effort I wouldn't compare 3:05 and 6:43, but 3:05 (maybe a bit faster by now) and 6:40 (OK, haven't done it, but very likely I'll do it next time), that's a difference of about 3:35.
Looking at some signatures here, I find differences of 3:40 (lance), 3:36 (Alasdair), 3:30 (Keith).
I would say Keith is very good for comparison as we both have a strength training background, by now it looks like I'm stronger for the very short distances, we're about equal at 500m and for everything longer he is much fitter, so the difference (3:30 vs. 3:35) is there, but not that big.
I always thought my biggest weakness is my 5k.

If you mean that I don't use full potential for the longer distances, I think that's true. It's very hard for me to struggle through to longer pieces, for a short time I can stand the pain much better (propably because of my strength training background with short duration and a lot of pain, but no excuse ). I think 2ks and 5ks on a regular basis will help me working on this deficit.

For differences you should look at av, not pace. Slower guys ofcourse have, on average a slower second k, and vice versa.

Energy sourches differ a good bit, depending the type of athlete.

Your current 2k is likely not your real pb, I would certainly do a few more. You now have a fear after that last one and better kill that off right away. If you don,t it will only build up......

Re buffer, you do not have a good buffer, just the opposite, you can produce a lot of acid, but to buffer it you need to have very good aerobic fitness. Think you mean, you can tolerate high lactate levels well.

In the big picture its clear, your speed reacts well, your 2k/5k much less so. If you want to improve that, your speedwork should be in that range. And at the same time stay away from the short stuff. Cause if you do, your natural strenght will take over right away.

In the end, you always will be stronger at 1k and below, but right now, you need confidence for the middle distance. Which simply does not come naturaly. Just like a non sprinter will always feel off during a real sprint.

Just my thoughts ofcourse, but don,t let fear settle in your head. Make it shut up!

[Dangerscouse]

Thank you Max, this effort was very important for my inner peace, now I can go on with my "normal" training routine

I'd be interested to see if you see any effects on your training post the PB effort. It took me a good 7-10 days to recover mentally and physically having achieved my personal goal......but then I might just be a drama queen

We are all different and recovery is way too subjective to be comparable, especially as it is so affected by personal life, work issues, general stress, sleep patterns etc.

Look at Jurg on Insta: we are very similar ages yet he rows every day and has done for circa two years, I need a few days off the rower and at least one day a week with no exercise at all. I can guarantee I'd be regressing very quickly if I tried to row every day and at the intensity that he does on occasion.

Recovery is something I have learnt to except as something I won't fully understand but I know when I need it. Going at something hammer and tongs because some other people do is a sure fire way of failing and feeling inadequate.

Find your own path and what works best for you. Always rest and recover when you need to as there are no prizes for doing more and more workouts: it's all about the end result. As I always say, you can only train as hard as you can rest.

[winniewinser]

Thank you Max, this effort was very important for my inner peace, now I can go on with my "normal" training routine

I'd be interested to see if you see any effects on your training post the PB effort. It took me a good 7-10 days to recover mentally and physically having achieved my personal goal......but then I might just be a drama queen

We are all different and recovery is way too subjective to be comparable, especially as it is so affected by personal life, work issues, general stress, sleep patterns etc.

Look at Jurg on Insta: we are very similar ages yet he rows every day and has done for circa two years, I need a few days off the rower and at least one day a week with no exercise at all. I can guarantee I'd be regressing very quickly if I tried to row every day and at the intensity that he does on occasion.

Recovery is something I have learnt to except as something I won't fully understand but I know when I need it. Going at something hammer and tongs because some other people do is a sure fire way of failing and feeling inadequate.

Find your own path and what works best for you. Always rest and recover when you need to as there are no prizes for doing more and more workouts: it's all about the end result. As I always say, you can only train as hard as you can rest.

I have a lot to learn....and need to remind myself I am only 4 months into this trip. Still enjoying it

I might look for a different training programme soon as the BPP doesn't always float my boat right now.

[MartinSH4321]

Martin, maybe have a look you pb av. Numbers to get a overview. It looks after 1k, you slow down a lot, and from 2k and beyond not so much anymore. See if you can spot things you could work on.
The difference between 1 and 2k is the biggest I have ever seen....

I think that's because of my sprinter's physique, I can produce good power, and a lot of lactic acid. For short distances I can stand the high acid level (big buffer I guess), but for longer distances I have to slow down according to my limited aerobic fitness, 2k is about 80% aerobic, so 1k properly about 60%.
As yesterday's effort wasn't an all out effort I wouldn't compare 3:05 and 6:43, but 3:05 (maybe a bit faster by now) and 6:40 (OK, haven't done it, but very likely I'll do it next time), that's a difference of about 3:35.
Looking at some signatures here, I find differences of 3:40 (lance), 3:36 (Alasdair), 3:30 (Keith).
I would say Keith is very good for comparison as we both have a strength training background, by now it looks like I'm stronger for the very short distances, we're about equal at 500m and for everything longer he is much fitter, so the difference (3:30 vs. 3:35) is there, but not that big.
I always thought my biggest weakness is my 5k.

If you mean that I don't use full potential for the longer distances, I think that's true. It's very hard for me to struggle through to longer pieces, for a short time I can stand the pain much better (propably because of my strength training background with short duration and a lot of pain, but no excuse ). I think 2ks and 5ks on a regular basis will help me working on this deficit.

For differences you should look at av, not pace. Slower guys ofcourse have, on average a slower second k, and vice versa.

Energy sourches differ a good bit, depending the type of athlete.

Your current 2k is likely not your real pb, I would certainly do a few more. You now have a fear after that last one and better kill that off right away. If you don,t it will only build up......

Re buffer, you do not have a good buffer, just the opposite, you can produce a lot of acid, but to buffer it you need to have very good aerobic fitness. Think you mean, you can tolerate high lactate levels well.

In the big picture its clear, your speed reacts well, your 2k/5k much less so. If you want to improve that, your speedwork should be in that range. And at the same time stay away from the short stuff. Cause if you do, your natural strenght will take over right away.

In the end, you always will be stronger at 1k and below, but right now, you need confidence for the middle distance. Which simply does not come naturaly. Just like a non sprinter will always feel off during a real sprint.

Just my thoughts ofcourse, but don,t let fear settle in your head. Make it shut up!

Of course I meant lactate tolerance, you're right!
I'll propably do at least one more this week or next week as I'm feeling really good atm, but I'll go by feeling. Doing the 2ks and 5ks more regularly will help to treat them as "normal" TT for sure. This will also help me to stay cool, I still have good progress, no need to worry. Just yesterday I did 45' UT2 at 2:03,5 (186W) and AHR of 123, that's incredibly good for me as AHR normally is around 130 at this pace.
As always, thanks for your feedback!

[hjs]

Of course I meant lactate tolerance, you're right!
I'll propably do at least one more this week or next week as I'm feeling really good atm, but I'll go by feeling. Doing the 2ks and 5ks more regularly will help to treat them as "normal" TT for sure. This will also help me to stay cool, I still have good progress, no need to worry. Just yesterday I did 45' UT2 at 2:03,5 (186W) and AHR of 123, that's incredibly good for me as AHR normally is around 130 at this pace.
As always, thanks for your feedback!

Both your base and speed are good, and getting getter. The thing missing is specific toughness, if you look at most sports, in season they do plenty of hard races. Thats what you did not do yet. The base is there but the peak on top of that is not.

[MartinSH4321]

Of course I meant lactate tolerance, you're right!
I'll propably do at least one more this week or next week as I'm feeling really good atm, but I'll go by feeling. Doing the 2ks and 5ks more regularly will help to treat them as "normal" TT for sure. This will also help me to stay cool, I still have good progress, no need to worry. Just yesterday I did 45' UT2 at 2:03,5 (186W) and AHR of 123, that's incredibly good for me as AHR normally is around 130 at this pace.
As always, thanks for your feedback!

Both your base and speed are good, and getting getter. The thing missing is specific toughness, if you look at most sports, in season they do plenty of hard races. Thats what you did not do yet. The base is there but the peak on top of that is not.

Yeah, that's right, I have to work on that. Recently I almost only did intervals as hard training, the 4x4' intevals felt good but pace is right in the middle of 2k and 5k and was only once per week or less, the 10x1' is too short to get this toughness. My intervals for the near future will be 6x2'/2'R (about 2k pace) and 4x6'/3'R or 4x8'/4'R (about 5k pace), together with 1-2 2k or 5k TT per month I should get tougher. And I'll reduce the sprinting stuff, 1-2 short intervals per month should be enough. As you said, it undermines my other training, maybe around season's end I can do more to go for sub 1:20.

[hjs]

Of course I meant lactate tolerance, you're right!
I'll propably do at least one more this week or next week as I'm feeling really good atm, but I'll go by feeling. Doing the 2ks and 5ks more regularly will help to treat them as "normal" TT for sure. This will also help me to stay cool, I still have good progress, no need to worry. Just yesterday I did 45' UT2 at 2:03,5 (186W) and AHR of 123, that's incredibly good for me as AHR normally is around 130 at this pace.
As always, thanks for your feedback!

Both your base and speed are good, and getting getter. The thing missing is specific toughness, if you look at most sports, in season they do plenty of hard races. Thats what you did not do yet. The base is there but the peak on top of that is not.

Yeah, that's right, I have to work on that. Recently I almost only did intervals as hard training, the 4x4' intevals felt good but pace is right in the middle of 2k and 5k and was only once per week or less, the 10x1' is too short to get this toughness. My intervals for the near future will be 6x2'/2'R (about 2k pace) and 4x6'/3'R or 4x8'/4'R (about 5k pace), together with 1-2 2k or 5k TT per month I should get tougher. And I'll reduce the sprinting stuff, 1-2 short intervals per month should be enough. As you said, it undermines my other training, maybe around season's end I can do more to go for sub 1:20.

You need stuff in the 750/2k region. Below is to short, although 500m reps on 1 min rest could be ok, longer rest don,t think gives much training effect. Above 2k, pace will become to slow. Time based of meters does not matter ofcourse.
You can also combine things. For example 1500/500 clusters. 1500 5k pace, 500 2k pace. 90 second rest. 5 min between clusters.
I also found, and I am relative comparable to you. 5k pace is relative slow for the intervals you are aiming. For me 5x1500 on 5 rest was 2/3 seconds below 5k pace. It needs to bite, you need to get “comfortable” at being uncomfortable to say.

[MartinSH4321]

Both your base and speed are good, and getting getter. The thing missing is specific toughness, if you look at most sports, in season they do plenty of hard races. Thats what you did not do yet. The base is there but the peak on top of that is not.

Yeah, that's right, I have to work on that. Recently I almost only did intervals as hard training, the 4x4' intevals felt good but pace is right in the middle of 2k and 5k and was only once per week or less, the 10x1' is too short to get this toughness. My intervals for the near future will be 6x2'/2'R (about 2k pace) and 4x6'/3'R or 4x8'/4'R (about 5k pace), together with 1-2 2k or 5k TT per month I should get tougher. And I'll reduce the sprinting stuff, 1-2 short intervals per month should be enough. As you said, it undermines my other training, maybe around season's end I can do more to go for sub 1:20.

You need stuff in the 750/2k region. Below is to short, although 500m reps on 1 min rest could be ok, longer rest don,t think gives much training effect. Above 2k, pace will become to slow. Time based of meters does not matter ofcourse.
You can also combine things. For example 1500/500 clusters. 1500 5k pace, 500 2k pace. 90 second rest. 5 min between clusters.
I also found, and I am relative comparable to you. 5k pace is relative slow for the intervals you are aiming. For me 5x1500 on 5 rest was 2/3 seconds below 5k pace. It needs to bite, you need to get “comfortable” at being uncomfortable to say.

OK, so my 2' is a bit too short, what about 5x3'/3'R, should be a bit slower than 2k pace and about 900m?
The 4x6' fits pretty good, between 1,5-2k, the 8' a bit too long. The pace was a rough classification, for the 4x6' my plan was 5k-1 for a first (conservative) try and then pacing up week per week. For my recent 4x4'/3'R it worked good, raised watts from 292 to 310 within one month (4 sessions), the last one was very hard. When I think about it, the 4x6' should be better with 5'R and 5k-1,5 pace.
This combining sounds interesting, but I always shied away from this as it makes calculations much more complex and I'm such a data driven guy, plain vanilla intervals are easier for me, one thing less to think about

[hjs]

OK, so my 2' is a bit too short, what about 5x3'/3'R, should be a bit slower than 2k pace and about 900m?
The 4x6' fits pretty good, between 1,5-2k, the 8' a bit too long. The pace was a rough classification, for the 4x6' my plan was 5k-1 for a first (conservative) try and then pacing up week per week. For my recent 4x4'/3'R it worked good, raised watts from 292 to 310 within one month (4 sessions), the last one was very hard. When I think about it, the 4x6' should be better with 5'R and 5k-1,5 pace.
This combining sounds interesting, but I always shied away from this as it makes calculations much more complex and I'm such a data driven guy, plain vanilla intervals are easier for me, one thing less to think about

I think you look at overall volume Martin. 5x3 is a bit short. Would say go for 7. Same for 4x4 bit short. 4x6 is enough. And don,t make the rest to short. If you go hard enough 5 min are over before you know it.

For 2k paced work, try to reach 4k volume, for 5k, think 7/8k volume.

For pacing, start out doable, with a faster last. Don,t be super precise, go a bit on feel. Its important to not let the pm dictate your pace, but your body.

And for alternative stuff, if you fear it, it a good thing to try it. The more you need to feel the pace. Just follow the rough guidelines re pacing and volume. That you know, so you can,t go wrong very much.

[jimmyshand]

2k TT - 6:43,9 - -3sec

I finally did it!
This was a real "safety" effort as I wanted to avoid to risk a second HD, so I decided to start a bit faster, do the middle 1k at the pace I did at my previous 2k PB and at 500m to go pace up.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
6:43.9 2,000m 1:40.9 340 1470 32
0:40.3 200m 1:40.7 342 1477 30
0:40.8 400m 1:42.0 330 1435 29
0:40.9 600m 1:42.2 327 1426 31
0:41.1 800m 1:42.7 323 1410 29
0:41.1 1,000m 1:42.7 323 1410 31
0:41.1 1,200m 1:42.7 323 1410 31
0:41.1 1,400m 1:42.7 323 1410 31
0:40.4 1,600m 1:41.0 340 1469 33
0:39.5 1,800m 1:38.7 363 1550 33
0:37.6 2,000m 1:34.0 421 1750 41

Is Martin real, is he human? These are the questions I ask myself with the constant improvement. Really good to see, plus very interesting pacing strategy.

You are making that boat go very fast at the end there Martin so sub-6:40 on that signature soon.