Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

If you ever do produce the evidence, of course I'll agree.

O.K., if you really mean this.

BTW, just curious.

What do you think you would pull for 2K just on the basis of low rate rowing (16-22 spm), that is, without even preparing for it--with no distance rowing (23-27 spm), threshold rowing (28-32 spm), or anaerobic intervals (33-38 spm) at all?

I did 6:29.7 in 2006, when I was 55.

ranger

[ranger]

For example, why is it you cannot row a continuous 10k at your easy FM pace of 1:48?

I can.

Easily.

And will, soon.

At this point, though, I am training, not racing.

I am just making sure that I take good strokes.

Pulling 1:48 @ 25 spm at a HR of 155-160 bpm doesn't depend on working hard.

It depends on rowing well.

When I work hard, in a 10K, by the end, I'll push my HR to 185 bpm.

I repeat:

Technically, for a 60s lwt, 1:48 @ 25 spm at 75% HRR is in the range of a dozen seconds per 500m better than anyone else has ever done.

The 60s lwt FM WR is 2:00 pace.

This last year, the best 60s lwt 10K was 1:53.5.

Greg Brock holds the 60s lwt 2K American record of 6:56.6/1:44.1.

1:44 is my target pace for 60min.

60min is done at 2K + 10.




RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 10000m | Men's | Lightweight | Ages 60-69 | 2010 Season

gregory brock 61 santa cruz ca USA 37:50.6 IND
1 Hugh Conway 60 St. Pats TOW Club IRL 38:10.3 IND_V
2 Gerald Lawson 62 Winona MN USA 38:17.1 IND_V
3 Greg Hodge 62 Traverse City MI USA 38:32.1 IND_V
4 Ed Pabst 60 Terre Haute IN USA 38:38.6 IND
5 Joe Keating 61 London IRL 38:49.9 C2Log
6 Bob Lakin 61 Wichita KS USA 38:52.2 IND_V
7 john black 61 wanganui NZL 39:01.8 IND
8 Rick Bayko 62 Newburyport MA USA 39:06.6 IND_V
9 Rob Drury 63 Maidstone Kent GBR 39:07.4 C2Log
10 Brian Snead 63 westgate-on-sea Kent GBR 39:09.7 IND_V

ranger

[whp4]

I could be your father.

From all indications, Lancs is a fine, upstanding chap who neither dissembles nor welshes on bets, possesses a high degree of intelligence, has numerous friends, and would actually need to wear a mask to scare the neighborhood kids at Halloween. How could you possibly be his father?

[ausrwr]

Technically, for a 60s lwt, 1:48 @ 25 spm at 75% HRR is in the range of a dozen seconds per 500m better than anyone else has ever done.

First things first: you are NOT 60 years old. And you you have a history of inconsistency as a lightweight at events where you have to weigh in within 1-2 hours of racing, not whenever you feel like. Remember your anger a while ago when an event told you that you couldn't weigh in 5 hours before then rest and re-hydrate?

You're not 12 seconds better than anyone who's come before you. If you were, you'd be falling over yourself to show it.

And as for your assertion that you pulled 6:29 in 06 having not rated higher than 22, I doubt that. I've no doubt, however, that if we went back and checked your posts from that time that you'd be saying, "sharpening's going well".

Keep doing what you're doing. If you produce results, so much the better, but until then, you're keeping the peanut gallery amused and bemused.

[ranger]

You're not 12 seconds better than anyone who's come before you. If you were, you'd be falling over yourself to show it.

Indeed.

Every day that I train for 1-2 hours, pulling 1:48 @ 25 spm, with a 75% HR, I fall over myself showing it.

After several months, this training leads to a FM trial, 1:48 @ 25 spm.

Races are not won at race venues.

Races are won in training.

Only improvements in UT training make you better.

Your HM, 60min, and 10K paces are predicted by your FM pace.

Your 6K and 5K paces are predicted by your HM, 60min, and 10K paces.

Your 2K pace is predicted by your 5K and 6K paces.

So...

Onward.

ranger

[ranger]

Keep doing what you're doing. If you produce results, so much the better, but until then, you're keeping the peanut gallery amused and bemused.

Bemusement at someone's training that is succeeding _waaaay_ beyond the training of those who are bemused, in fact, __waaay_ beyond any training in the history of the sport, is amusing.

So it goes.

The forum can be serious at times, but when it isn't, at least it's good for a laugh.

ranger

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

Your HM, 60min, and 10K paces are predicted by your FM pace.

Your 6K and 5K paces are predicted by your HM, 60min, and 10K paces.

Your 2K pace is predicted by your 5K and 6K paces.

I'm fairly certain those statements are complete crap. You could have two people of the exact same weight/height pull the same 2k yet putt significantly different 6ks. It's all about the training you do. Case in point - there are two novices on our team who pull a 6:25 and 6:26, I pull a 6:27, yet my 6k is by far faster than theirs, because they concentrate on 2ks only, we spend the whole fall on 6k training then the spring on 2k training.

[ranger]

Your HM, 60min, and 10K paces are predicted by your FM pace.

Your 6K and 5K paces are predicted by your HM, 60min, and 10K paces.

Your 2K pace is predicted by your 5K and 6K paces.

I'm fairly certain those statements are complete crap. It's all about the training you do.

Indeed it is.

My reference is to maximal training.

I have three WR rows.

I am training to row 26 seconds under the WR in the next age division, when I move up just before WIRC 2011.

I am not training to row like crap.

ranger

[ranger]

there are two novices on our team who pull a 6:25 and 6:26, I pull a 6:27, yet my 6k is by far faster than theirs, because they concentrate on 2ks only

You are in a glass house throwing stones.

Given your 2K, your 60min row should be 17K, not 16K.

ranger

[ranger]

you have a history of inconsistency as a lightweight at events where you have to weigh in within 1-2 hours of racing, not whenever you feel like.

Not when I am prepared to race--with distance rowing, distance trials, and a couple of months of hard sharpening.

Then, sure, sometimes I feel better than other times, but if you are ready to race, you just tough out the times you don't feel as spunky.

At EIRC in 2003, I was done after 1K, really, which I did in 3:12, but I just toughed it out to the end and still finished respectably, in 6:32.

At St. Catharines in 2003, I did the the same.

When I felt good, I rowed three or four seconds faster--pulling flat splits.

ranger

[ranger]

If you ever do produce the evidence, of course I'll agree.

O.K., if you really mean this.

BTW, just curious.

What do you think you would pull for 2K just on the basis of low rate rowing (16-22 spm), that is, without even preparing for it--with no distance rowing (23-27 spm), threshold rowing (28-32 spm), or anaerobic intervals (33-38 spm) at all?

I did 6:29.7 in 2006, when I was 55.

ranger

Lancs--

In this situation, do you think that you would do five seconds off of your best 2K?

Or 10?

Or 15?

If your answer is that, in this situation, you would do 10-15 seconds off of your best 2K, do you think my 6:29.7 in similar conditions when I was 55 indicates that I could then do sub-6:30, or do you think my 6:29.7, without even preparing for it, indicates that I was _really_ only capable of something well over 6:40, fully trained?

That is, would you argue that preparing to race makes you 10-15 seconds better over 2K but it makes me 15 seconds worse?

If so, why?

ranger

[ausrwr]

you have a history of inconsistency as a lightweight at events where you have to weigh in within 1-2 hours of racing, not whenever you feel like.

Not when I am prepared to race--with distance rowing, distance trials, and a couple of months of hard sharpening.

So, a history of being inconsistent unless everything's perfect. A history of inconsistency. Life's not perfect, training's not perfect. Deal with it.

Then, sure, sometimes I feel better than other times, but if you are ready to race, you just tough out the times you don't feel as spunky.

At EIRC in 2003, I was done after 1K, really, which I did in 3:12, but I just toughed it out to the end and still finished respectably, in 6:32.

At St. Catharines in 2003, I did the the same.

Well, that's just crap pacing, isn't it. And what about your 7:09, or your DNFs? I've never DNFd a race in rowing or erging.

One of our coaches had a saying about it. "When that little voice comes, and asks you if it's too much, you can put the handle down. Then you can take a deep breath, a look around the beautiful shed around you, at all the dedicated athletes around you, the history of everyone that came before you. Take it all in. Then walk out of the shed, and never, ever come back again."

When I felt good, I rowed three or four seconds faster--pulling flat splits.

ranger

That just says at the times you did it perfectly, and didn't start like an idiot, you rowed to your potential. You don't row better, you haven't crossed any frontiers in your training that make you better than anyone else, ever.

beyond any training in the history of the sport,

Bollocks.

If you row in the 6:30s at BIRC, you may well set a record that will stand for a long time.

At least until Roy decides to have a go at it.

[ranger]

It's all about the training you do.

Indeed it is.

ranger

[ranger]

If you row in the 6:30s at BIRC, you may well set a record that will stand for a long time. At least until Roy decides to have a go at it.

I am not going to row sub-6:30.

I am going to row sub-6:20.

If Roy rows at BIRC 2010, he'll have a hard time pulling 6:50.

Brian Bailey's 6:42 at 60 and Paul Siebach's 6:25 at 50 are both _waay_ better than Roy's 6:38 at 55.

Brian's and Paul's rows are the equivalent of about 6:34 at 55.

Even so, Roy only pulled 6:38 once.

All of his other lwt rows were 6:42 or over.

ranger

[PaulH]

I am going to row sub-6:20.

Liar