Sprints and Stuff- training/questions 1k and below

[cannondalerugby5]

For 500 ofcourse you need raw speed, but its 80 seconds, so endurance does play a role. You have good raw power, but aerobic fitness is a bit less. Once you go overboard, its over and out.
Looking at the way you start on the 500 its way to agressive, you don,t need that 1.10 split, after the first few pulls your goal should be to settle as soon as you can at your cruisingpace.

I am right that 1.25 is your current pb? If so your hardly should go below 1.18 ish. You need to get ok enough through the last 100. Everything you think to gain at the start, your lose double later on.

Ratingwise, 40 for your build and this pace is to heigh. Think you can get away with less. Keep the high rating for the sprintfinish.

Dont have a 500m pb - this is all new ground,I thought the first 6 strokes were free and you should maximise them ,you are right about my aerobic fitness it needs to improve,will row at the lowest rate to hold the 1.25 and wait till last 100 - if there is anything left

[lindsayh]

Dont have a 500m pb - this is all new ground,I thought the first 6 strokes were free and you should maximise them ,you are right about my aerobic fitness it needs to improve,will row at the lowest rate to hold the 1.25 and wait till last 100 - if there is anything left

Steve I agree with henry - the 500 is very different to say 300 or 1minute and there is an element of endurance not a pure sprint.
You have to get fast quickly and below target pace say by stroke 4 but then don't go too deep after that - just hold the pace - IMO 1:15 is about as low as you need and then back off a bit. Otherwise the fly and die will kill most mere mortals from about the 1 minute mark. You really need to be fit too.

[cannondalerugby5]

Dont have a 500m pb - this is all new ground,I thought the first 6 strokes were free and you should maximise them ,you are right about my aerobic fitness it needs to improve,will row at the lowest rate to hold the 1.25 and wait till last 100 - if there is anything left

Steve I agree with henry - the 500 is very different to say 300 or 1minute and there is an element of endurance not a pure sprint.
You have to get fast quickly and below target pace say by stroke 4 but then don't go too deep after that - just hold the pace - IMO 1:15 is about as low as you need and then back off a bit. Otherwise the fly and die will kill most mere mortals from about the 1 minute mark. You really need to be fit too.

The "really need to be fit "comment rules me out Lindsay,my only endurance sessions are 6 x 500m 90sec rest.

[hjs]

Dont have a 500m pb - this is all new ground,I thought the first 6 strokes were free and you should maximise them ,you are right about my aerobic fitness it needs to improve,will row at the lowest rate to hold the 1.25 and wait till last 100 - if there is anything left

Steve I agree with henry - the 500 is very different to say 300 or 1minute and there is an element of endurance not a pure sprint.
You have to get fast quickly and below target pace say by stroke 4 but then don't go too deep after that - just hold the pace - IMO 1:15 is about as low as you need and then back off a bit. Otherwise the fly and die will kill most mere mortals from about the 1 minute mark. You really need to be fit too.

The "really need to be fit "comment rules me out Lindsay,my only endurance sessions are 6 x 500m 90sec rest.

The less fit you are the better more room for improvement.

Free strokes? Used energy is used energy. It feels free (alactic anaerobe), but still its there and burning it out hard is not wise.

Just do a few feeler 500 s, based on that you get a good idea what you can right now. You will get it right. Raw talent you have.

[lindsayh]

The "really need to be fit "comment rules me out Lindsay,my only endurance sessions are 6 x 500m 90sec rest.

Maybe you will just have to do a lot of them! IMO Most of the really good 500 people (as opposed to the pure sprinters) do steady meters as well 2k to 5k at low sr but quite a few interval sessions at 250m to 400m with say a minute rest and some sets of power strokes. Good luck with it - I also agree with Henry the raw power is very impressive. There are a couple of threads here from the past with some good discussion including input from the legendary Leo Young (he of the 1:10.4 WR)

[cannondalerugby5]

The "really need to be fit "comment rules me out Lindsay,my only endurance sessions are 6 x 500m 90sec rest.

Maybe you will just have to do a lot of them! IMO Most of the really good 500 people (as opposed to the pure sprinters) do steady meters as well 2k to 5k at low sr but quite a few interval sessions at 250m to 400m with say a minute rest and some sets of power strokes. Good luck with it - I also agree with Henry the raw power is very impressive. There are a couple of threads here from the past with some good discussion including input from the legendary Leo Young (he of the 1:10.4 WR)

Sorry Lindsay

I wasn't clear

My average week looks like this

3 sessions x heavy lifts 5 x 5 squat,dead,bench,press,bent over,hang cleans

2 x 10k at 18 rate - recovery row pace 2.05

20 x 100m 1 min rec flat out

14 x 120m 1 min rec flat out

10 x 250m 90 sec rec flat out

6 x 500 180 sec rec 1.38

10 x 300m 2 min rest 1.35

So when I said I am not doing any distance I meant the sort of 30 min x 20, reps of 2k etc

Hope this makes sense.

[Shawn Baker]

Steve, the best way IMO to prep for what to expect from a 500 PB is do so a few of them- maybe at 90% effort, maybe with a rate cap (say 30-35 spm) that way you are well familiarized with what to expect from your current physiology- if goal is 1:22 then if it were me and it was going to be a true PB effort, I would probably look to be around 1:19-1:20 for first 100 meters and then get to 400m at around 1:20.5 and expect to lose 1-1.5 seconds over last 100 meters (but that's just the way my physiology works)- you might be different, best way to find out is just do a bunch of 500s over the course of a few weeks- it serves to get you used to it and it also takes away some of the anxiety and guess work

[cannondalerugby5]

Steve, the best way IMO to prep for what to expect from a 500 PB is do so a few of them- maybe at 90% effort, maybe with a rate cap (say 30-35 spm) that way you are well familiarized with what to expect from your current physiology- if goal is 1:22 then if it were me and it was going to be a true PB effort, I would probably look to be around 1:19-1:20 for first 100 meters and then get to 400m at around 1:20.5 and expect to lose 1-1.5 seconds over last 100 meters (but that's just the way my physiology works)- you might be different, best way to find out is just do a bunch of 500s over the course of a few weeks- it serves to get you used to it and it also takes away some of the anxiety and guess work

Your right Shawn,I need to get some in and stop talking about it.

Will aim for one this weekend - first benchmark would be sub 1.30 perhaps

Fingers crossed

[Edward4492]

Shawn, could not agree more with your comments regarding stroke. As I work my way back into full bore erg training (as opposed to OTW) I'll be getting back to the 20r stuff at 200w (fairly stiff wattage for me) for up to 30min. Had my fastest 2k ever (6:59) when I was doing lots of the low rate stuff. This is even more evident OTW. I do a lot of 20-22r stuff in the single. It starts to fall apart for me around 27-28r OTW. Should go with-out saying that sculling is way more technical than erging; so the break downs are magnified. There are others that are using your more moderate ratings with a properly applied stroke and massive power that makes it's way to the wheel. I found it very interesting that I was able to lay down a solid (for me) 500m with a total of about five one and done sessions, following your approach. Really got me to thinking.

Steve, fastest time in 2016 for all rowers, HWT and LWT, 60-99 is 1:24.5. In 2017 Steve Roedde the WR busting LWT is fastest of 324 (HWT and LWT) world wide at 1:28.5. The 60-69 WR is 1:22.0

looks to me like you should continue to focus on the 500m.

(plus 500m sucks a whole lot less than 2k)

[Shawn Baker]

Back on decent rower

1k

200m splits

1:28.0 @26
1:29.5 @27
1:31.0 @26
1:31.2 @26
1:30.2 @28

Avg 1:30.0 @26 (3:00.1)- saw 3:00.0 at end but monitor rounded up

DF was at 205- not too bad despite another poor night of sleep

Followed with 185lb step ups to 12"box (3 each leg)/one legged bounding x20m x 5 sets

185lb squats to 12" low box x 3/sled pushes with 3x 45lb plates loaded x 40m (20 there and back) x 5 sets

Hamstrings really got blown up with these- good stuff!

[cannondalerugby5]

Back on decent rower

1k

200m splits

1:28.0 @26
1:29.5 @27
1:31.0 @26
1:31.2 @26
1:30.2 @28

Avg 1:30.0 @26 (3:00.1)- saw 3:00.0 at end but monitor rounded up

DF was at 205- not too bad despite another poor night of sleep

Followed with 185lb step ups to 12"box (3 each leg)/one legged bounding x20m x 5 sets

185lb squats to 12" low box x 3/sled pushes with 3x 45lb plates loaded x 40m (20 there and back) x 5 sets

Hamstrings really got blown up with these- good stuff!

You must have a fantastic gym Shawn,allowing you to do all this great power stuff.

I think I would get odd lucks if I even did some jumps!

1 k looking strong!

[cannondalerugby5]

Strange morning!

Scheduled to do 400 - 1.30,300m - 1.25,200 - 1.22

Thought the 400 would be hardest but straightforward .

I am learning that what you guys say is so right ref fitness or lack of it.

Remembering that I did 370m in 1.21 at 40 rate df 180

I did 400 in 1.28.1 at 33 rate!!! df 180 , it wasn't easy

I think I thought the 400m was like a 2k and rated too low and my strokes were too long?

What a learning journey this sprint work is.

I thought I could just pull the handle - idiot.

So ,a couple of questions please;

Warm up before a 500m attempt - I just did an easy 2 k with 4 x 100m at target pace,didn't feel ready,how about an Eddie Fletcher 20mins?

I realise I have the power but not the endurance,based on my schedule from a couple of post ago,how long before I would feel some gains,remember I am getting older and slower!

Thanks

Steve

[cannondalerugby5]

Shawn, could not agree more with your comments regarding stroke. As I work my way back into full bore erg training (as opposed to OTW) I'll be getting back to the 20r stuff at 200w (fairly stiff wattage for me) for up to 30min. Had my fastest 2k ever (6:59) when I was doing lots of the low rate stuff. This is even more evident OTW. I do a lot of 20-22r stuff in the single. It starts to fall apart for me around 27-28r OTW. Should go with-out saying that sculling is way more technical than erging; so the break downs are magnified. There are others that are using your more moderate ratings with a properly applied stroke and massive power that makes it's way to the wheel. I found it very interesting that I was able to lay down a solid (for me) 500m with a total of about five one and done sessions, following your approach. Really got me to thinking.

Steve, fastest time in 2016 for all rowers, HWT and LWT, 60-99 is 1:24.5. In 2017 Steve Roedde the WR busting LWT is fastest of 324 (HWT and LWT) world wide at 1:28.5. The 60-69 WR is 1:22.0

looks to me like you should continue to focus on the 500m.

(plus 500m sucks a whole lot less than 2k)

Hi Edward

Your right,did the 2 k in 2007 and the 3 months training was really hard work and boring,the race itself was painful.Would not look forward to doing it again.

Give me the 100m anytime!

[Edward4492]

The 500m is an interesting distance. When I was doing my short build-up I was actually getting faster as I moved through the time checks. Nite one, 40s, nite two 45s, etc. By the time I hit 60s I was down to a 1:32.5 average. Made it to 75s still holding a 1:33.0. When I did the 500m I completely came apart on the final 70-80m, finished with 1:34.0. I think we start to get this mindset that if we get to 370 meters, or 410 meters that we can just gut it out and hang on.Well, when it's over.....it's over.

[Shawn Baker]

Basically a rest day today- to gym for just a quick 1k (after easy 1k wu)

Fairly weak one- legs a little beat, heart rate not bad

Tomorrow, sub3 or die trying