Pete Plan Autumn 2015

[Galeere]

Re 4x1k
On June 26 I did the 4 x 1k with an average of 1:46.8 (and negative intervals @ 1:48.8, 1:47.9, 1:46.9, 1:43.7).
2k- PB 6 weeks later was @ 1:43.5.
I reckon that a gain of 2 seconds can be accounted for as follows: Suboptimal pacing spread on the 4x1 k (pace difference of 5 sec is too high), training effect during the 6 weeks, the small taper before the 2k-TT and the adrenalin pumping. I distantly remember that the pain induced during the 2k was somewhat deeper than on the 4x1k. But all of this probably does not account for a 3.3 second-improvement.
So the Pete-second is an additional cushion which IMO actually does exist.

=> When someone can pull sub 1:45 on a 4x1k (-> reference to Dean for example) than a sub 7-result on a 2k is highly probable and an initial pace of 1:45 (or whatever the average on the 4x1k was) is totally prudent.
=> When someone averages 1:46 on a 4x1k IMO there are still good chances for a sub-7 if an initial pace of 1:46 is selected.

For 2k-pacing and to explain Initial pace-suggestion I might ad, that I personally like the 2k-pace-formula of 800m @ target-pace +1, 500m @ target-pace, 500m target-pace -1, 200m full sprint. Didn´t do it on my own PB-TT because I didn´t know of that pacing suggestion back then.

[jackarabit]

I concur on the arbitrary division of the terrible 2 as 800, 600, 400, 200m or similar.

[bisqeet]

W3D3
More or less according to Pete himself
"3k, 2.5k, 2k = 1second slower than 5k pb pace (5k + 1)"
5k pb 18:50 - 1:53/500 -> target 1:54

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2k-wu
Trg Unit - 10,5km (7,5 interval / 3km rest)
10km wd @2:05
Total 22,5km

[G-dub]

There is no stopping you Dean! Very impressive improvements and capacity to keep cranking out all the workouts in style. Well done sir.

[mdpfirrman]

It's amazing how I read something before going to the gym and then completely disregard it. I can relate to trying to go too fast. I even posted that you should go out on the 4 X 1000m at 2K PB + 1 sec and then I go out and don't listen to that at all.

My PB on the 2K is 7:30 so far but I keep thinking that I'm around a 7:22 (based on projected times). I need to use ACTUAL times, not projected times for my workouts. I set my target as 1:51.5 today (which is my actual 2K PB - 1 second). Failed miserably, of course. If I had set my target at 1:53.5 instead, I probably could have felt good and done negative work through the last two. Instead, it was survival mode the last two.

1:51.2 / 27
1:50.9 / 28
1:54.5 / 26 (knew at this point I was done)
1:58.4 / 26

1:53.7 27 Average - Just off what my target should have been. Would have hit it if I wasn't foolish and started out too quick.

I think the mentality of starting out too quick goes something like this... "I know I'm going to fly and fade so if I can just get off to a bit better of a start...". Doesn't end up working like that though. I actually stopped on the last interval for around 3 seconds. Could not catch my breathe. Was anaerobic way too quickly. Live and learn I suppose. Felt good though to be back again working out.

[bisqeet]

It's amazing how I read something before going to the gym and then completely disregard it. I can relate to trying to go too fast. I even posted that you should go out on the 4 X 1000m at 2K PB + 1 sec and then I go out and don't listen to that at all.

My PB on the 2K is 7:30 so far but I keep thinking that I'm around a 7:22 (based on projected times). I need to use ACTUAL times, not projected times for my workouts. I set my target as 1:51.5 today (which is my actual 2K PB - 1 second). Failed miserably, of course. If I had set my target at 1:53.5 instead, I probably could have felt good and done negative work through the last two. Instead, it was survival mode the last two.

1:51.2 / 27
1:50.9 / 28
1:54.5 / 26 (knew at this point I was done)
1:58.4 / 26

1:53.7 27 Average - Just off what my target should have been. Would have hit it if I wasn't foolish and started out too quick.

I think the mentality of starting out too quick goes something like this... "I know I'm going to fly and fade so if I can just get off to a bit better of a start...". Doesn't end up working like that though. I actually stopped on the last interval for around 3 seconds. Could not catch my breathe. Was anaerobic way too quickly. Live and learn I suppose. Felt good though to be back again working out.

this is my third rotation now, so i have some correleated some data that is useful for working out future targets.
what i do is work out the average pace for that seasion - then use that (+/- 0,5s) as the target for the next rotation - this replaces the initial value from the PP.
uptil now - i've managed to meet most (all?) of my targets...

[Galeere]

Excellent work Dean!
@mdp: It seems to be a common mistake. I remember blowing up twice or so as well. Doesn´t feel good though, bot mentally and physicalla and kind of destroys the mean to project a sustainable pace for the next workout etc. Better to start a second too slow than a second too fast. Many fellow ergers would have given up in your situation though (including me). Lesson learned one way or the other.

[jackarabit]

Mike Pfirrman writes:

. . . . I even posted that you should go out on the 4 X 1000m at 2K PB + 1 sec and then I go out and don't listen to that at all.

My PB on the 2K is 7:30 so far but I keep thinking that I'm around a 7:22 (based on projected times). I need to use ACTUAL times, not projected times for my workouts. I set my target as 1:51.5 today (which is my actual 2K PB - 1 second). Failed miserably, of course. If I had set my target at 1:53.5 instead, I probably could have felt good and done negative work through the last two. Instead, it was survival mode the last two.

I am put in mind of Richard Feynman. Arithmetic sorties of the headspace sort are not to be taken lightly--whether working on the A bomb or the erg.

[gregsmith01748]

Mike, I've done the same thing too many times to count. It's probably a good idea to be conservative and nail most of your workouts, but sometimes its hard to resist the urge to push the first rep a bit faster than might be prudent. It often ends in disaster, but sometimes you can surprise yourself.

Even if it ends badly, I think you can learn a lot from the experience. You need to push your limits to truly know where your limits are. This can be especially true when you are in the first few rotations through the Pete Plan. Fitness improvements don't always follow a steady path, sometimes you can make a bit of a breakthrough. You can also learn to push through a lot more discomfort than you might be able to handle at first.

So, I'm all for the occasional flame out! Celebrate the fly and die every once in a while. We all need a bit more drama in our lives. If you want to row right on the edge of that precipice in a race, you need to fall off it a few times in practice.

[jackarabit]

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 30#p318660


Check the link, Mike. That is an F&F w/ final split resurrection. Henry J Streiker is no novice and knows the rough trajectory of such an effort. It is a test to near failure except for the reliable kick in the last rep. Everyone should swing for the fences occasionally but the bread and butter is base hits--or pace hits in our game.

[mdpfirrman]

Thanks all (Dean, Hardy, Jack and Tim, Galeere)! Not discouraged from yesterday. I like the idea too of using your last round to better gauge what your pace should be the next round. Ended up yesterday feeling a bit ill in the evening (stomach bug I think). Perhaps that's also why I struggled so much yesterday.

You all are a tremendous bit of information. Much appreciated.

Nice work on the pyramid Dean!

[jackarabit]

W3S1
4X1K/5'R
Pace target 2:05.7 from 6-27-15
Df 109
3988m Fletcher WP
2500m CD

[bisqeet]

W3D4
Steady distance:
HM @ HRCap 1409
managed to watch Legends (Series 2 Episodes 1&2)

mega relaxed phonecall inbetween

21907m - 1:32:45,5 - 2:12/500 1275Cal Ave HR 138

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[G-dub]

Solid work Jack. You've made some nice improvements since the summer. How much more do you think you can milk out of this round !?

[bisqeet]

solid work, jack...

nice work on the *coff* neg. *coff* splits